375k in a Civic

[LarryL]

Here is a UOA on my Honda Civic 1500cc carb engine at 375k miles, head never off, but a new cam 100k ago (one lobe started to wear).
Still have original compression, runs well and gets great gas mileage, burns 1/2 qt/5k miles (was 1 to 2 qts/5k miles with 10w-30).

Any comments...

Red Line 20w-50
Amsoil oil filter
AC Air filter

Blakstone Labs
6,105 miles on oil, changed when sample taken
engine hot and taken from stream, about two seconds after drain plug pulled.

aluminum 3
chromium 1
iron 8
copper 7
lead 6
tin 1
moly 415
nickel 0
manganese 0
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 10
boron 29
silicon 7
sodium 22
calcium 2423
magnesium 10
phosphorus 1002
zinc 1016 barium 0

sus vis @210F 97.6 (82-95)
flash 425
fuel antifreeze 0.0
water 0.0
insolubles 0.4

 

[427Z06]

What year is your Civic?

 

[Alan]

There is no doubt that this car won't make it over 150k with that 20W50!

Nice report.You say the head has never been removed?Wow

,the original head gasket with 375K on it!

Sodium and potassium are slightly elevated,could be a leak.

 

[TooSlick]

I'd check and see if Redline is using boron in this formulation? If not, I'd say you have some coolant seepage (borates are used as a coolant add to control corrosion). That would also contribute to the high solids level and bearing wear.

TS

 

[LarryL]

It's an '84, and the viscosity started out at 5w30, and went up over 20 years as the engine wore and burned more oil. And, yes, I'm worried about a coolant leak, but the coolant level does not change from day to day. I'm thinking about pressure checking the cooling system and looking for gasses in the coolant. I did check with Red Line and it looks like the elevated levels are not from the oil.
I guess that, contrary to what I have read on this forum, that Red Line is a good oil for street use. It's not just my opinion, it's parked in my driveway. Under the valve cover the engine looks like it was just assembled. The cylinders, via a boroscope, look like new and the UOA looks good. The TBN for Red Line, new is 7 and it's still 4.5, maybe I should extend the oci, but I probably won't.

 

[Al]

Personally I think you would be better off with a 40 wt. oil. If you like Redline and feel you need to go synthetic.Go with say 10W-30 Mobil and put a 25% or so 20W-50 Redline oil in there. That will get you close to a 40 wt. You could go 50/50 and get a 40 wt.

You might have a leak. It is so small (and probably intermitant) that I doubt a pressure test will show up anything. I'd just keep an eye on it or throw in a good stop leak. I understand GM has a good product bc of their epedemic leaks on their V-6 engines.

 

[LarryL]

Al, lighter weights give more oil burn in this engine. I've only moved up when oil consumption increased, and the step-up have worked, and the half quart of so burn off has been pretty consistant. The first step from 5w30 to 10w-30 did not occur until about 150k miles, and the next jump to 10w-40 did not happen until about 250k miles, then 20w-50 and about 350k miles. The steps were made with the engine started to burn between 1 and 2 qts/5k miles. This engine is out in a mileage region, with no major work that I've never experienced, or anyone that I know. I have never done a uoa before because the engine showed no problems and I'd rather put the money toward the next oil change. I have been using Amsoil oil oil filters and AC air filters and I think this uoa confirms that they are working ok, too. The problem is that I may not live long enough to ever see the insides of the engine when it wears out. I'm a little curious, to see what 20+ years and a third of a million miles looks like inside.

 

[Gene K]

Well personally I like 15W40 HDEO in older engines but if what you have works for you go for it.

Gene

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gene K:
Well personally I like 15W40 HDEO in older engines but if what you have works for you go for it.

Gene

---

I agree 100% with Gene. I've also been quite impressed with Pennzoil's High Mileage 10w-40 product, it's a thick 40wt...

 

[ryansride2017]

How much 10W40 was burned during an oil change interval that made you change to 20W50?

I don't think anybody can complain too much, it is a 1984 with 375K on the clock.

 

[michaelc80]

I wouldn't change what you're doing. 375K is proof that what you're doing is working well.

 

[LarryL]

Ryan, all the 'steps' were done at 1-2 qts/5k miles, and consumption, after the step and 2-3k miles went back to about a half quart/5k miles, where it is now. I've only been on 20w-50 for about 25k miles, a small percentage of the total miles driven. I think there will be a certain about burned, now matter what. One interesting thing, the gas mileage has remained constant, between 37/40 mpg. Maybe the increased wear makes up for the pumping loses of a thicker oil. This also points to careful driving in excellent weater conditions and mostly freeway driving, all leading to a long life. The car has a 5-speed and I've only replaced the clutch twice. I have two different 400+ mile commutes where the car is in 5th most of the way and the mileage at 65/70 is a bit over 40 mpg (not exactly the EPA cycle). Although I drive the car much less now, it's just too good to dump, and worth nothing to sell. This tall boxy station wagon is a great size. A jacked up AWD version of this station wagon is called a Honda CRV. I wonder if the new CRV will prove to be a good car, too?

 

[fuel tanker man]

Larry,

Have you been on Redline from the beginning? Or have you used other oils along the way?

Congratulations on a great running car!

Dan

 

[oilyriser]

How do the spark plugs look after 30k of use? Lots of white ash? oily? carbon? Is one of them much different from the others. Is any oil leaking from the engine?

 

[fuel tanker man]

Larry,

As you may have discerned from some of my previous posts, I've been skeptical of Redline's ability to extend the life of an engine--based on high wear metals in UOA's.

Your UOA of course shows excellent wear. In my previous post in this thread, I asked if you'd been using Redline all along. I'm sure you're enjoying your free Easter weekend and you're not stuck at home like me...

...so I checked some of your previous posts with regard to this remarkable car (and it certainly is that!) and it seems you've used Mobil 1 and Amsoil alternately over the miles.

My question is, how long have you been on the Redline 20W50? How many consecutive changes have you done on the Redline?

Dan

 

[LarryL]

fuel tanker man, I have tried different oils a bunch of times, but I would say that a big portion of the time has been Red Line. When I stepped up from 10w-40, I first tried 15w40 Mobil 1 in a jug from Wally World. I tried Mobil 1. but for no reason I can figure, I went back to Red Line. The idea of a Polyol Ester probably did it. The steps were based on oil consumption, nothing else. I guess I've been surprised at the reaction Red Line gets by many on this forum. Also I think that standard lab tests get screwed up by Red Line oil. So I think that my results say that Red Line works ok. Mobil 1 always looked better on the dip stick and was so clean looking it was hard to read the level. Red Line looks darker on the dip stick, you just have to ignore it. So I hope I've answered your question.