3/4 Ton Gas vs Diesel vs Tundra

[hemioiler]

I believe Tundras have Coilspring rear suspension. The half ton Chevy or Ford with rear leaf springs will do better towing.

There are a whole bunch of F150 configurations rated to 9k and even >10k towing.

Literally every truck brand has a configuration that can tow > 10k. You need the correct axle ratio, model, trim etc.

The problem isn't going to be GCWR. The problem is going to be payload. 8000 pound TT at 13% tongue weight is about 1100 pounds on your truck when you add in the WDH as well. Add yourself and your wife/family, and that's it, you have no more ability to carry weight since most half tons are at 1500 or less. If you buy cheaper trims you can get up to 1700+ but those are few and far between.

And just because a truck is rated to tow "a" trailer at 11,000 pounds, doesn't mean you should tow a 35 foot TT at 10,000 pounds. Because a flatbed with some steel sheets at 11k pounds will tow much much easier and different, than a 35 foot sail in the wind on the freeway. Manufacturers don't know what trailer you're towing, common sense needs to be a part of this as well.

Towing a 8000 pound TT with any half ton is about where I stop.

 

[Rob_Roy]

I am hoping to get some advice from those with trucks as daily drivers and also towing a travel trailer on occasion. I currently have a Jeep Grand Cherokee that I daily drive. I also have an older 2005 Ford F250 V10 for towing my 7K pound travel trailer 2-6 times a year (maybe 300-400 miles round trip each time).

I am considering consolidating down to one vehicle (get a newer rig and only have to insure one vehicle vs two) that I can daily drive and tow my travel trailer a handful of times each year. And my daily driving is very minimal 10-20 city miles each day. So I am looking for perspective on what to get. I hear that daily driving a diesel truck around the city for 10 or so miles is not good for the engine and that with the minimal towing I do a year the extra expense on a diesel (and higher maintenance costs) is not worth it.

My trailer is not overly heavy and we don't plan on getting another one anytime soon so some are recommending a Tundra instead of a 3/4 or 1-ton. Tundra is a bit smaller and more geared for daily driving in small amounts.

Has anyone been through this scenario before and if so, what did you do? I am leaning towards a newer gasser truck (Ford 7.3L) but also love the new Tundras and have heard many say they are very capable for towing.

The Tundra has an adequate towing capacity for your trailer, but it is important to look at the hitch weight of the trailer and total payload. By the time you load the truck with gear there might not be much capacity left for the hitch weight of the trailer.

 

[4WD]

Just like everything else there is “headroom” that can manage road conditions - one of the worst is road construction where the crews leave some uneven surfaces whilst turning towards a temporary road …
This is where I have seen lighter trucks leave an RV debris field …

 

[Marcozi]

My concern with a diesel would be getting all that metal up to full operating temperature.

 

[CarbonToast]

My concern with a diesel would be getting all that metal up to full operating temperature.

Agree and a diesel is probably the least economical choice for OP. Between higher inital purchase price and maintenance costs. It would be way overkill for OP situation.

 

[tcp71]

You are describing our use case almost exactly, plus a longer trip from Calgary to Vanouver, through the Rockies each year since 2017. Spec your F-150 with the correct wheelbase and towing package and enjoy your trips. This one is rated for 13k lbs of towing and 1900lbs of payload. Trailer is 7500lbs. Easy daily driver as well.

 

[Cujet]

Just a few bits of addl info. Clearly the F150 5.0 is a good tow machine. But it does require the 3.73 axle to be satisfying as a tow machine, and the 3.73 heavy duty axle if you want the 14K capacity 'sticker' on the receiver.

Also, the 5.0 uses less fuel when towing than does the 3.5 Ecoboost. Despite running at a bit higher RPM at times.

 

[uhomebody]

Agree and a diesel is probably the least economical choice for OP. Between higher inital purchase price and maintenance costs. It would be way overkill for OP situation.

As much as I would love the diesel for the times when I pull the trailer (for both power and increase in MPG) I had heard that driving a diesel truck 3 to 4 miles at a time was not good on the motor. And only towing 4-6 times a year doesn't justify the extra cost for me.

 

[4WD]

You can't make a claim "best 1/2 ton" without knowing what a buyer values. That Tundra is the oldest by far, like "cobweb old". It rides the worst, gets the worst mpg, has the worst payload, tows the least, has the worst transmission, has the least advanced towing/interior tech etc.

Clearly your definition of "best" is different than mine.

And last place in styling - talk about overwrought …

 

[D60]

I have been in a similar situation of needing both a heavy duty vehicle and a more sensible commuter vehicle. I choose to keep the two vehicles separate.

That said if you’re just ready for a new truck I think your plan is a good one. I’ve had great luck with F250 (gas) trucks. But since it’s more commuting oriented for your situation, I would pick the Tundra as F250s unloaded ride like a covered wagon.

Yeah, even with trucks I love my RCSB F150 4X4 as a parts runner. If I've gotta work it hard it's the CCLB F350 gasser 4x4. I'd never want to daily the F350 even though it's gas. It rides harsh and my wife calls it the land yacht because the wb is borderline absurd. I love the wb when towing, though -- the longer the tow vehicle the more difficult it is for the tail to wag the dog.

Personally, I keep it affordable because the trucks are older ‐‐ '07 and '11. Registration is cheap and so is insurance. It's practically free to own both -- meaning a few hundred per year per vehicle.

 

[ls1mike]

Keep your 2005 and your Daily. It is what I do. The 2005 is perfect for what you do.

 

[BrianF]

It's already been said but get a solid half ton and upgraded it to tow better. 10 ply tires and air bags.

I couldn't imagine daily driving my 3500 day in and day out. Love the truck but they are cumbersome and punishing. A gasser might be a slight improvement but overall a poor choice.

When we ran our 2011 Ram 1500, it had 10 ply, bags and 3.92 gears. It was an amazing machine. Air the tires down and you could zip it around all day, every day.

 

[GR_CoB]

Well that's funny, my truck hasn't eaten camshafts (or had any other issues either). And its a far better daily and towing driver, with more power, better mpg, better ride, more tow capability, more interior space etc.

The tundra's v8 has a reputation for living long, but its also produced in very small numbers compared to the American v8s. The hemi in various flavours has sold well over 10 million copies by now, any little flaw (which statistically will not affect me personally) gets blown out of proportion just due to volume and scale; a 1 or 2 percent flaw means hundreds of thousands of failures, but it's still just a 1 percent flaw. Its hard to get any sense of failures for the tundra v8 because they sell a fraction compared to the other v8s.

Remember that Toyota dealerships have service bays as well, and they're not just doing brake jobs and oil changes.

Anyway the point of my post was, "best 1/2 ton" is subjective to individual people. We have different values and criteria in trucks, what works for you/me may not work for me/you.

There is no single best half ton.

Get back to us on all these points after your warranty has been up for a good while. Most of this stuff is a "when", not an "if".
RAM trucks have the best interiors, I'll give them that. And Stellantis does a good job on Form. Otherwise I am much happier driving the 2012 Tundra in every single aspect, because I need reliable Function. Function>Form, all day everyday. No RAM can ever go 3x-5x times the warranty period for the same operating costs as a Tundra.
The 2019 RAM left my brother stranded 4 times so far in the 1.5 years he owned it, and EACH of the 4 repairs exceed the full amount of operating costs of the 2012 Tundra that's been in the family twice as long. So I'm gonna say there is a best 1/2 ton, it just won't win the RAM beauty contest, but will gladly tow the RAM to a repair shop when it inevitably fails. That's a "when", not an "if".
The only thing that's "cobweb old" is the fact that RAM still can't make a proper HEMI camshaft/lifter combo that can go the distance. Occasionally a Pentastar goes the distance (seen a couple with 300-400k miles), but even lots of those suffer from similar failures, despite Stellantis selling 5.7 million trucks in last decade and having tons more experience, than the 1.2 million of Tundras sold in last decade.

 

[hemioiler]

Get back to us on all these points after your warranty has been up for a good while. Most of this stuff is a "when", not an "if".
RAM trucks have the best interiors, I'll give them that. And Stellantis does a good job on Form. Otherwise I am much happier driving the 2012 Tundra in every single aspect, because I need reliable Function. Function>Form, all day everyday. No RAM can ever go 3x-5x times the warranty period for the same operating costs as a Tundra.
The 2019 RAM left my brother stranded 4 times so far in the 1.5 years he owned it, and EACH of the 4 repairs exceed the full amount of operating costs of the 2012

Anecdotes aren't data. But if you read the ram forums, all kinds of happy owners that have never seen the inside of a garage for non maintenance.

It would really suck to be the guys buying tundras due to some misinformed perception of reliablity, only for them to start running into issues with it. All dealerships have garage bays, and they all do non maintenance type repairs.

Tundra that's been in the family twice as long. So I'm gonna say there is a best 1/2 ton, it just won't win the RAM beauty contest, but will gladly tow the RAM to a repair shop when it inevitably fails. That's a "when", not an "if".
The only thing that's "cobweb old" is the fact that RAM still can't make a proper HEMI camshaft/lifter combo that can go the distance. Occasionally a Pentastar goes the distance (seen a couple with 300-400k miles), but even lots of those suffer from similar failures, despite Stellantis selling 5.7 million trucks in last decade and having tons more experience, than the 1.2 million of Tundras sold in last decade.

We've already covered this. The various hemis combined outsell the Tundra v8 by a factor of what, 5 to 1? 10 to 1? Who knows but its a lot. Naturally you'll read more horror stories as well.

 

[dlundblad]

If you’re considering a new tundra, what about a new F150 with the 3.5 EB and tow package?

 

[GR_CoB]

Anecdotes aren't data. But if you read the ram forums, all kinds of happy owners that have never seen the inside of a garage for non maintenance.

It would really suck to be the guys buying tundras due to some misinformed perception of reliablity, only for them to start running into issues with it. All dealerships have garage bays, and they all do non maintenance type repairs.



We've already covered this. The various hemis combined outsell the Tundra v8 by a factor of what, 5 to 1? 10 to 1? Who knows but its a lot. Naturally you'll read more horror stories as well.

75% of those owners are still under warranty and beat themselves on the chest about 25,000 trouble free miles. Is that really an achievement though? And most of them will have the truck traded in before the 65,000 mile power train warranty runs out.

V8 Tundras are not trouble free, but troubles that it does have are "a factor of what, 5 to 1? 10 to 1?" compared to the RAM vice versa? I'm talking about true work trucks here, no garage queens that never get any true use or miles. Our 2012 Tundra had the terrible common Secondary Air Injection system failure. $1000 later it's fixed and riding trouble free for a while now. While the 2019 RAM already had 4 failures, each of which cost more than a $1000 to repair. That's not mentioning the DIY repairs, like it being on its third alternator for the past year.

Anyways, I'm done. Not bashing here, just sharing our factual experience.

 

[hemioiler]

75% of those owners are still under warranty and beat themselves on the chest about 25,000 trouble free miles. Is that really an achievement though? And most of them will have the truck traded in before the 65,000 mile power train warranty runs out.

Look for rams on autotrader, all kinds of them still on the road, working perfectly fine, with no engine issues. Not sure why you're talking about original ownership because many are on second/third/fourth owners too.

V8 Tundras are not trouble free, but troubles that it does have are "a factor of what, 5 to 1? 10 to 1?" compared to the RAM vice versa? I'm talking about true work trucks here, no garage queens that never get any true use or miles.

We don't have any data that says ram or tundra is more or less trouble free. We do have sales numbers, but "trouble free" is a lot harder to define and track. As for "work trucks", Rams are used for more for work trucks than tundra ever was. Fleet sales, rentals, landscaping, construction, those are all american trucks. Tundras are mostly purchased by home owners.

Our 2012 Tundra had the terrible common Secondary Air Injection system failure. $1000 later it's fixed and riding trouble free for a while now. While the 2019 RAM already had 4 failures, each of which cost more than a $1000 to repair. That's not mentioning the DIY repairs, like it being on its third alternator for the past year.

Again, anecdotes are not data. But I do know every modern tundra (ones with turbo engines) are getting their front end ripped apart, with a new engine installed, and I'll be willing to bet a lot of those trucks aren't the same once they're back in operation.

The 5.7 hemi was used and abused for years in the 2500 (detuned slightly) as the entry engine, it's proven itself. It will take a beating and keep going as long as you look after it. There is also talk on this forum that they fixed the lifter/cam issues in newer models, I don't know whether that bears out in stats or not but I have 0 concerns about my truck puking. For a start, it was 10k CAD cheaper than the GMs and probably even more cheaper than the v8 tundra when I was purchasing my truck, so I can drop a brand new hemi in at 200k KM and carry on, coming out ahead still with a truck I actually want to drive, for all the many advantages it has over the tundra, than worrying about some 1 percent flaw that will not likely affect me. There is literally nothing the Tundra does objectively better than the Ram, that's it in a nutshell for me. The only questionable thing is whether reliability is better in the Tundra, and to that, I'll take my chances on the Ram with 0 concerns, especially vs the turbo tundra.

I forgot to mention in a previous post that I did fix the wheel bearing on the front right, it bothered me so little I had forgotten about it lol. But again if you buy a truck based purely on reliability, knowing it does everything worse than the competition, the second I have issues with it I'd be more than upset that I'm not getting what I paid for and I'd be regretting my purchase.

 

[OVERKILL]

Get back to us on all these points after your warranty has been up for a good while. Most of this stuff is a "when", not an "if".
RAM trucks have the best interiors, I'll give them that. And Stellantis does a good job on Form. Otherwise I am much happier driving the 2012 Tundra in every single aspect, because I need reliable Function. Function>Form, all day everyday. No RAM can ever go 3x-5x times the warranty period for the same operating costs as a Tundra.
The 2019 RAM left my brother stranded 4 times so far in the 1.5 years he owned it, and EACH of the 4 repairs exceed the full amount of operating costs of the 2012 Tundra that's been in the family twice as long. So I'm gonna say there is a best 1/2 ton, it just won't win the RAM beauty contest, but will gladly tow the RAM to a repair shop when it inevitably fails.

Amusingly, we had a fleet of 2011/2012 RAM 1500's at the office (still have a '14, that's the oldest). All of them went about 200,000 miles with minimal repairs, and, being the most problem-prone years for lifter failure, four of them succumbed to it at a little under, or a little over 200,000 miles.

That's a "when", not an "if".'

None of those aforementioned trucks were every towed to the repair shop. They got brakes, tires, gas and oil, were extremely cheap to own until the lifter failures. When that happened, they were still driveable, but they'd throw a CEL and run rough.

The only thing that's "cobweb old" is the fact that RAM still can't make a proper HEMI camshaft/lifter combo that can go the distance.

This was supposedly fixed in 2018 with revised lifters. Note that GM is STILL having the same problem, but theirs is compounded by the AFM/DFM issues, and Ford had the same problem with the 7.3L Godzilla engine. This was, and is, not an issue exclusive to the HEMI, it's, IMHO, an outsourcing problem that has impacted all three marques.

Occasionally a Pentastar goes the distance (seen a couple with 300-400k miles), but even lots of those suffer from similar failures, despite Stellantis selling 5.7 million trucks in last decade and having tons more experience, than the 1.2 million of Tundras sold in last decade.

I mean, Toyota has had numerous engine failures with their new TT V6 that replaced the Tundra V8. Manufacturing defects can, and do happen, you'd think with Toyota's reputation, they'd have figured out how to make a TT V6 that didn't explode in their flagship pickup

 

[BrendanC]

daily drove my CCLB 2500HD 6.0L/4L80 for 8 years before buying my little accord. i lifted it 10” on 35x15.50 tires and still daily drove it. i enjoy being able to see over traffic and anticipate what its doing rather than just relying on the person infront of me. i’d still be driving it now if i didn’t have a 72mile round trip to work every day.

 

[johnmyster]

Once you have an extra vehicle in your fleet, you will never go back.

Get a beater for daily use. Find a 5.7 tundra of your dreams (or a 3/4 ton tow pig) and then make it last forever by only using it for truck stuff. Don't force a tow pig into a "one size fits all" use case.