20W50 oil OK in Prius?
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Interesting that your perspective is that the US manual is "dumbed down".
If you live in the US, 0W and 5W20 is readily available. I continue to be mystified as to why people obsess about the viscosity recommendations in other countries in which they don't live?
There are many reasons for the divergence of recommendations, from laws regarding minimum HTHS to availability. It's not necessarily about "dumbing things down".
You don't live in Austrailia. Why is this a concern?
If you live in the US, 0W and 5W20 is readily available. I continue to be mystified as to why people obsess about the viscosity recommendations in other countries in which they don't live?
There are many reasons for the divergence of recommendations, from laws regarding minimum HTHS to availability. It's not necessarily about "dumbing things down".
You don't live in Austrailia. Why is this a concern?
Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
What I find interesting is the assumption that the US manual is the "dumb owners" version. Isn't it possible that the Australian manual is also dumbed down? Perhaps there is a very strong bias in favor of thick oils there -- and possibly pressure on Toyota to include that as an option there.
One thing is for sure there are lots of dummies in the US. Attorneys also try to protect companies from the lowest common denominator, and thats pretty low.
What I find interesting is the assumption that the US manual is the "dumb owners" version. Isn't it possible that the Australian manual is also dumbed down? Perhaps there is a very strong bias in favor of thick oils there -- and possibly pressure on Toyota to include that as an option there.
One thing is for sure there are lots of dummies in the US. Attorneys also try to protect companies from the lowest common denominator, and thats pretty low.
Why do oil charts like this keep resurrecting themselves?
It is so DATED! [I know engines have latitude]
C'mon now... a Prius with 20-50?
In countries other than the USA, maybe they want to make the cars more salable by OKing oils commonly found in various locales.
It is so DATED! [I know engines have latitude]
C'mon now... a Prius with 20-50?
In countries other than the USA, maybe they want to make the cars more salable by OKing oils commonly found in various locales.
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Originally Posted By: mechtech2
[I know engines have latitude]
C'mon now... a Prius with 20-50?
In countries other than the USA, maybe they want to make the cars more salable by OKing oils commonly found in various locales.
That's the reason in part as others have correctly concluded.
But I think it has more to do with service flexibility.
If you need a litre of oil in Alice Springs and the local garage has nothing lighter than 20W-50 at least the owner and the garage knows it can be used.
[I know engines have latitude]
C'mon now... a Prius with 20-50?
In countries other than the USA, maybe they want to make the cars more salable by OKing oils commonly found in various locales.
That's the reason in part as others have correctly concluded.
But I think it has more to do with service flexibility.
If you need a litre of oil in Alice Springs and the local garage has nothing lighter than 20W-50 at least the owner and the garage knows it can be used.
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Originally Posted By: LckydevL
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
I say absolutely! That`s why the owner`s manual says to use a thicker viscosity if driving under high loads or high speeds. 20wt oils are fuel economy oils.
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
I say absolutely! That`s why the owner`s manual says to use a thicker viscosity if driving under high loads or high speeds. 20wt oils are fuel economy oils.
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: LckydevL
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
I say absolutely! That`s why the owner`s manual says to use a thicker viscosity if driving under high loads or high speeds. 20wt oils are fuel economy oils.
And you're wrong.
20wt oils are specified because a higher viscosity oil is not required for most typical driving conditions.
The Toyota manual doesn't say what you claim.
What it does say is; "An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."
And what constitutes "better suited"? It's if very much higher than normal oil temp's are generated and unless that happens a heavier oil will NOT be "better suited" or provide more protection.
Originally Posted By: LckydevL
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
I say absolutely! That`s why the owner`s manual says to use a thicker viscosity if driving under high loads or high speeds. 20wt oils are fuel economy oils.
And you're wrong.
20wt oils are specified because a higher viscosity oil is not required for most typical driving conditions.
The Toyota manual doesn't say what you claim.
What it does say is; "An oil with a higher viscosity may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."
And what constitutes "better suited"? It's if very much higher than normal oil temp's are generated and unless that happens a heavier oil will NOT be "better suited" or provide more protection.
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And what constitutes "better suited"?
You should probably ask the guys who designed the engine and wrote the manual,"Toyota". So I would have to say that *you* are wrong and Toyota is right.
And what constitutes "better suited"?
You should probably ask the guys who designed the engine and wrote the manual,"Toyota". So I would have to say that *you* are wrong and Toyota is right.
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See, thats why I buy American. My Ford (yes made here by UAW and 80% American parts) says 5w 20 from the bottom of the thermometer to the tippy top of the thermometer... No guess work there huh?
My son inherited a 2007 Camry with the 4 cyl. Of course I do the maintenance. I'm still not sure what to put in it. I have 5w 20 Pennzoil Yellow Bottle and a Purolator classic filter. I hope that will work. I heard they are back spec'ed to full syn 0w 20 only and I have also heard, 5w 20 full syn only because of sludge. Fortunately he believes in 3000 mi changes which is why I went with dino.
My son inherited a 2007 Camry with the 4 cyl. Of course I do the maintenance. I'm still not sure what to put in it. I have 5w 20 Pennzoil Yellow Bottle and a Purolator classic filter. I hope that will work. I heard they are back spec'ed to full syn 0w 20 only and I have also heard, 5w 20 full syn only because of sludge. Fortunately he believes in 3000 mi changes which is why I went with dino.
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Originally Posted By: johnachak
See, thats why I buy American. My Ford (yes made here by UAW and 80% American parts) says 5w 20 from the bottom of the thermometer to the tippy top of the thermometer... No guess work there huh?
See, thats why I buy American. My Ford (yes made here by UAW and 80% American parts) says 5w 20 from the bottom of the thermometer to the tippy top of the thermometer... No guess work there huh?
Originally Posted By: pzev
Also, remember, its Australia, a place where you can buy 10w-60 over the counter! I'd imagine their fascination with heavy weight oils is due to experiences garnered generations ago with inferior lubricants. Like many oil traditions, these heavyweight oils have stuck around. Toyota of Australia isn't going to hamstring their vehicle owners or mechanics by saying 20w-50 is not allowed in their engines....because I'd imagine in some parts of the country, 5w-20, and other "thin" oils are hard to come by.
I think you've pretty much summed it up there.
This is from the AU/NZ SDS for the 2009> Prius. Yet when you read the one for the Camry is states "0w-20 is best" but gives the options up to 5w-30. Weird, mind you Toyota works in mysterious ways as do the Aussies.
Also, remember, its Australia, a place where you can buy 10w-60 over the counter! I'd imagine their fascination with heavy weight oils is due to experiences garnered generations ago with inferior lubricants. Like many oil traditions, these heavyweight oils have stuck around. Toyota of Australia isn't going to hamstring their vehicle owners or mechanics by saying 20w-50 is not allowed in their engines....because I'd imagine in some parts of the country, 5w-20, and other "thin" oils are hard to come by.
I think you've pretty much summed it up there.
This is from the AU/NZ SDS for the 2009> Prius. Yet when you read the one for the Camry is states "0w-20 is best" but gives the options up to 5w-30. Weird, mind you Toyota works in mysterious ways as do the Aussies.
My 1996 Ford Contour was factory spec'd for 5W-30. In my pre BITOG days I thought "thickerer is betterer" so I used various 5W-50 synthetic oils. Needless to say my mpg suffered so did my "seat of the pants acceleration" . I finally went back to 5W-30 synthetic and 5W-30 syn blends. My mpg increased a lot and my "seat of pants acceleration" also increased.
I learned that "thickerer is not betterer"
.
Whimsey
I learned that "thickerer is not betterer"
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I guess this is a point against the mantra "the bearings have close tolerances and are designed for 5W20" - the mfg actually acknowledges one could use 20W50.
Charlie
Has anyone EVER seen this "new tolerance" printed or listed in a Shop/overhaul manual for a modern engine?
It is a 'myth', correct?
I posted a bearing manufacturer's manual in Interesting Articles.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2510026#Post2510026
Have a look, and see what you think.
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I guess this is a point against the mantra "the bearings have close tolerances and are designed for 5W20" - the mfg actually acknowledges one could use 20W50.
Charlie
Has anyone EVER seen this "new tolerance" printed or listed in a Shop/overhaul manual for a modern engine?
It is a 'myth', correct?
I posted a bearing manufacturer's manual in Interesting Articles.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2510026#Post2510026
Have a look, and see what you think.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I wouldn't be surprised if they had to list all the oils that "would work" in the engine, by law. Note their strong recommendation of lighter than 5w30 and the fact that the cap would still say 0w20.
Cap doesn't say 0W-20...simply can't get it down here, making it silly to put it on the cap.
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Files/Mobil_Product_Guide_South_Pacific_May09.pdf
That's not a "strong recommendation" to use lighter than 5W-30, but a statement that in "very cold" conditions (just like you don't get in Oz), 10W-30 and above may be problematic.
My L67 SPECIFIES 20W-50, with a recommendation to use 15W-40 in "very cold" conditions.
I wouldn't be surprised if they had to list all the oils that "would work" in the engine, by law. Note their strong recommendation of lighter than 5w30 and the fact that the cap would still say 0w20.
Cap doesn't say 0W-20...simply can't get it down here, making it silly to put it on the cap.
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Files/Mobil_Product_Guide_South_Pacific_May09.pdf
That's not a "strong recommendation" to use lighter than 5W-30, but a statement that in "very cold" conditions (just like you don't get in Oz), 10W-30 and above may be problematic.
My L67 SPECIFIES 20W-50, with a recommendation to use 15W-40 in "very cold" conditions.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: LckydevL
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
no
Don't be too quick on that one...traditionally, Oz engines take 130-140,000 miles to get to 1 qt/3,000 miles consumption, and that's when rebuild is considered...1qt/3,000 miles out of the factory is unheard of down here...and cat safe
Originally Posted By: LckydevL
All things being equal with the oil grades in question.
Would a thicker oil protect better?
no
Don't be too quick on that one...traditionally, Oz engines take 130-140,000 miles to get to 1 qt/3,000 miles consumption, and that's when rebuild is considered...1qt/3,000 miles out of the factory is unheard of down here...and cat safe
We have one on the yard - it wouldn't even go last week. One of the other guys did a service on it, but put 15/40 in it - how long do you think it will last?....?
Good discussion here, thanks for playing.
I personally use 0W20 in my prius and I'm very comfortable with that due to mostly city driving and engine is on only 50% of the time or so. I live in a hot climate though, probably comparable to Australia.
I personally use 0W20 in my prius and I'm very comfortable with that due to mostly city driving and engine is on only 50% of the time or so. I live in a hot climate though, probably comparable to Australia.
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