2018 Yamaha Star Venture

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Received my Blackstone oil report on my 2018 Yamaha Star Venture with the 1854 CC V-Twin engine. This report shows the last two oil samples one Yamalube 15w-50 motorcycle oil and the second one Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil. The Redline 10w-40 will be on the left, the Yamalube 15w-50 will be in the center and the universal average will be on the right. Aluminum Redline 5 ppm Yamalube 9 ppm Universal average 7 ppm Chromium Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 0 ppm Universal average 0 ppm Iron Redline 6 ppm Yamalube 12 ppm Universal average 13 ppm Copper Redline 2 ppm Yamalube 3 ppm Universal average 7 ppm Lead Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 0 ppm Universal average 1 ppm Tin Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 0 ppm Universal average 1 ppm Molybdenum Redline 530 ppm Yamalube 380 ppm Universal average 61 ppm Nickel Redline 1 ppm Yamalube 2 ppm Universal average 1 ppm Manganese Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 1 ppm Universal average 1 ppm Silver Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 0 ppm Universal average 0 ppm Titanium Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 0 ppm Universal average 0 ppm Potassium Redline 0 ppm Yamalube 2 ppm Universal average 2 ppm Boron Redline 18 ppm Yamalube 36 ppm Universal average 81 ppm Silicone Redline 14 ppm Yamalube 18 ppm Universal average 10 ppm Sodium Redline 8 ppm Yamalube 4 ppm Universal average 59 ppm Calcium Redline 3021 ppm Yamalube 2490 ppm Universal average 2482 ppm Magnesium Redline 7 ppm Yamalube 10 ppm Universal average 194 ppm Phosphorus Redline 1855 ppm Yamalube 1789 ppm Universal average 1192 ppm Zinc Redline 2055 ppm Yamalube 1888 ppm Universal average 1392 ppm Barium Redline 1 ppm Yamalube 2 ppm Universal average 1 ppm Flashpoint in Degrees Fahrenheit Redline 440 Yamalube 425 TBN Redline 7.3 Yamalube 6.6 The Yamalube 15w-50 was run first and the Redline 10w-40 was the latest run. From looking at the wear numbers while the Yamalube had good wear numbers but the Redline out preformed the Yamalube returning lower wear numbers. I think this Yamaha 1854 CC V-Twin engine likes the 40 weight viscosity a little better than the 50 weight viscosity. I will be running Redline 10w-40 motorcycle oil from now on due to the excellent wear numbers it returned. The Redline oil change interval also went 1,317 miles longer than the Yamalube oil change and the redline still returned better wear numbers than the Yamalube 15w-50 full synthetic did. My old Victory Cross Country Tour was the same it showed better wear numbers with the 10w-40 oil then it did with 20w-50 oil. Both my old Victory and this new Yamaha are shared sump systems with gear driven primaries/transmissions. I think Yamalube is reformulating their oils now as according to their data they are lowering the Phosphorus and Zinc because the latest JASO standard is now following EPA mandates to lower those anti wear additives due to catalytic converters. I am of the opinion that I must have gotten some old stock 15w-50 Yamalube because the Yamalube site lists Phosphorus and Zinc between 800 ppm and 1,000 ppm and my report came back with much higher ppm for both Phosphorus and Zinc for the Yamalube 15w-50 sample. This new lowered Phosphorus and Zinc content might rear its head on engines using flat tappet style cam/lifter systems such as the one in this 2018 Yamaha Star Venture 1854 CC V-Twin. My reason for thinking this is because this engine uses one cam lobe and one lifter to operate two valves and two valve springs at a time for both the intake and the exhaust (four valve heads) which is likely comparable to a high performance valve spring on a single valve/valve spring system where lowered Phosphorus and Zinc have contributed to failed cams/lifters. There are currently three reported cam/lifter failures on 2018 Yamaha Star Venture 1854 CC engines, one of them the oil that was being run when it failed around the 7,000 to 8,000 mile mark was Yamalube 10w-40 conventional oil. The other two engines did not say what oil they were running in their engines But both were less than the 7,000 mile mark and one of those two was reported at 3,200 to 3,400 mile mark, the third one I don't have mileage except that it failed before the 7,000 mile mark. I have over 8,800 miles on my 2018 Yamaha Star Venture 1854 CC engine with no reported issues. I wonder if the higher ZDDP content in the oils I have chosen to run have protected my engine from suffering the cam/lifter failures the other three engines have suffered. I did break-in my engine with the factory fill Yamalube 10w-40 conventional oil and the first service was also Yamalube 10w-40 conventional oil, the conventional oil was dumped and the oil filter changed again at the 1,000 mile mark and synthetic oil was used from that point forward.
 
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RedVic

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(I am of the opinion that I must have gotten some old stock 15w-50 Yamalube because the Yamalube site lists Phosphorus and Zinc between 800 ppm and 1,000 ppm and my report came back with much higher ppm for both Phosphorus and Zinc for the Yamalube 15w-50 sample.) That should have read 800 PPM to 1,200 PPM, that was a typo.
 
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Nice report, it would be interesting to see a run of the 40 weight Yamaha oil or a repeat of the 15/50 test as the Yamaha oil report was still most likely part of the engine still breaking in. Cam failures can also be attributed to faulty manufacturing, not properly hardened, its not an unknown issue with all types of different vehicles in past years.
 

irv

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I've believed for a long time Yamalube is nothing special and there is nothing in it that warrants the price Yamaha charges for it. Yamaha doesn't own a refinery nor make their own oil, someone else does for them, which tells me a lot. Up here, the price of Yamalube, for what you actually get in the bottle/jug, is atrocious.
 
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Originally Posted by irv
I've believed for a long time Yamalube is nothing special and there is nothing in it that warrants the price Yamaha charges for it. Yamaha doesn't own a refinery nor make their own oil, someone else does for them, which tells me a lot.
Well don't be shy now. Fill us in on what it tells you.
 

irv

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Originally Posted by JAG
A great chef doesn't need to work for a farm and food-processing facility to make food.
Preparing food and making food are 2 different things.
 

irv

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Originally Posted by MotoTribologist
Originally Posted by irv
I've believed for a long time Yamalube is nothing special and there is nothing in it that warrants the price Yamaha charges for it. Yamaha doesn't own a refinery nor make their own oil, someone else does for them, which tells me a lot.
Well don't be shy now. Fill us in on what it tells you.
It tells me, most likely, Yamaha is paying someone else who does own a refinery/oil business and whatever product they sell is likely the same product Yamaha sells, only at a highly inflated price. I can no longer find UOAs/VOAs on here that showed Yamalube was nothing special at all, or nothing that came close to the price they charge for it. I seen those UOAs/VOAs and I recall reading the one UOA that showed the Yamalube oil was practically spent at 600 miles. crzy Also, in talking with others a little more closely related to the oil business, this person, who I had no reason not to believe, stated he seen Citgo Sea and snow bottles come down the line followed immediately right after by Yamalube bottles. He said there was no halt or stoppage between the 2, they just rolled off right after the Sea and Snow bottles. The last I had heard is Yamalube is now being made/manufactured by Nippon, but that info, like most other toy manu's, is tough to verify.
 
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So your qualms about Yamaha having their product private labelled by a toll blender are solely related the price of the product then?
 

irv

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Originally Posted by MotoTribologist
So your qualms about Yamaha having their product private labelled by a toll blender are solely related the price of the product then?
Re-read my post. I am saying that Yamalube isn't likely any different than the much cheaper oil that came down the assembly line before it. Yamalube is expensive, especially up here, and like I said, the UOAs and VOAs that I seen on here proved there was nothing special or unique about it that justified it's price point. It is just an average run of the mill oil just like Redvic noted above.
 
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some of the justification for the higher prices affiliated with POWERSPORTS oils carrying 'wet clutch compatibility ratings' is the participation in the JASO certification process to receive the actual certification for manufactuers' warranty requirements; this all costs money & these costs drive up prices that are passed onto consumers!
 
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Nope, don't believe that is so. What is the source of the info above about the costs and getting passed on to consumers that jacks up costs? The fact the market is narrow for a MC specific oil and people buy the Kool-aid and drink it too about the wet clutch stuff is how they justify the prices. It is commonly known what oils regardless of rating or not, have friction modifiers and which don't. It's up to the susceptibility and gullibility of people to figure or not figure it out. Not a $$ issue and manufacturers do their own testing. That won't drive up oil cost... Like Shell says Rotella (in some but not all oils) meets JASO specs and hasn't taken it to the final step for the symbol or whatever. I would be happy to find out otherwise if it is different from below. This is from another of the JASO MA threads: "Just to clarify, it is up to each oil manufacturer to perform the necessary tests to show compliance with a JASO spec. The results of these tests are then submitted to a JASO panel/management for review and approval of the application. The JASO panel does not perform any additional tests. They either approve or reject the application. It sounds like Shell has done the first part but has not done the second part, which is a bit strange because according to JASO documentation, the management fee is only about $500 (40,000 Yen). This seems like a small price to pay to be able to carry the official JASO logo. Makes you wonder why Shell would not pay the fee. But maybe they treat their Rotella line as HDEO mainly and the JASO spec is just an added bonus and not its main purpose."
 
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Originally Posted by Bonz
Nope, don't believe that is so. What is the source of the info above about the costs and getting passed on to consumers that jacks up costs? The fact the market is narrow for a MC specific oil and people buy the Kool-aid and drink it too about the wet clutch stuff is how they justify the prices....."
Not entirely true. If you buy any manufacturer labeled oil, car, truck, boat, bike or plane. The oil with the manufacturers name on it usually is priced at a premium, just like an OEM part. More or less what I am saying is, its not just manufacturer labeled motorcycle oil, its the whole OEM industry of all vehicles.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by Bonz
Nope, don't believe that is so. What is the source of the info above about the costs and getting passed on to consumers that jacks up costs? The fact the market is narrow for a MC specific oil and people buy the Kool-aid and drink it too about the wet clutch stuff is how they justify the prices....."
Not entirely true. If you buy any manufacturer labeled oil, car, truck, boat, bike or plane. The oil with the manufacturers name on it usually is priced at a premium, just like an OEM part. More or less what I am saying is, its not just manufacturer labeled motorcycle oil, its the whole OEM industry of all vehicles.
 
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Well, I know I can buy Valvoline motorcycle oil in a auto parts store for dollars less, then I can buy Harley oil at a dealer, And if you look online you can do better. I think people think if one oils additive package has higher numbers then what the OEM oil does, it's somehow a better oil. And not, that the OEM's oil has all the additives the mfgr thinks their product needs. Wouldn't you think if say, Yamaha thought their bikes needed 350ppm's of Boron, they would put it in their OEM oil's ?.,,,
 
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