2018 NAF/Motor Magazine (Norway) Winter Tire Test

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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Interesting that Goodyear beat out Nokian. The Goodyear's are priced better up here. Thanks for the post.

Good Year always had top notch winter tires in Europe. Actually in 1990's and beginning of 2000's they were absolute leader in winter tire field. Later they would be overtaken by Continental.


Goodyear has a nick name....Good for one Year :)
 
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Interesting that Goodyear beat out Nokian. The Goodyear's are priced better up here. Thanks for the post.

Good Year always had top notch winter tires in Europe. Actually in 1990's and beginning of 2000's they were absolute leader in winter tire field. Later they would be overtaken by Continental.


Goodyear has a nick name....Good for one Year :)

We in North America do not get Euro versions of Good Year tires. Their winter tires for two decades until some 2008 were second to none. Nokian was not on the map back then.
 
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by E365
^ +1

In the 2017 NAF Test, the Nokian Hakka R2 was dead-last in the wet asphalt braking test. Behind all the cheap Chinese tires.

https://www.motor.no/artikler/2017/oktober/vinterdekk-2017-bremsing-pa-vat-asfalt/


I think we're talking about 2 different things. I think the Hakka to be excellent "Snow" tires. though they may not be the best Winter tires

Which does not do you any good in real life if wet performance is on point being dangerous. That means Nokian is making tires for few million people who live in conditions that warrant 24/7 snow performance, while majority of people live in areas where winter means ice, snow, rain, sun, etc.
 
As decent as Xi3 is it is much worse in warm, dry than Wintersport 4D. I expect newer performance winters to be even better.
I have not driven enough in the wet on 4Ds to have an opinion but I expect them to beat Xi3s in the wet too.

KrzyÅ›
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by E365
^ +1

In the 2017 NAF Test, the Nokian Hakka R2 was dead-last in the wet asphalt braking test. Behind all the cheap Chinese tires.

https://www.motor.no/artikler/2017/oktober/vinterdekk-2017-bremsing-pa-vat-asfalt/


I think we're talking about 2 different things. I think the Hakka to be excellent "Snow" tires. though they may not be the best Winter tires

Which does not do you any good in real life if wet performance is on point being dangerous. That means Nokian is making tires for few million people who live in conditions that warrant 24/7 snow performance, while majority of people live in areas where winter means ice, snow, rain, sun, etc.

And nokian makes different winter tires for different markets.

24/7 snow and ice is for the hakkapeliita line
A mix of everything is with the WR line

Nokian EU label for wet braking for the R2 is a F. The WR D3 is an A.

Best winter tire is dependent on what you need them for. Moving to coastal SoCal, I need a tire now that handles warmer temperatures fine with predictable handling during the week and weekends handle winter conditions when I hit the slopes.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by E365
^ +1

In the 2017 NAF Test, the Nokian Hakka R2 was dead-last in the wet asphalt braking test. Behind all the cheap Chinese tires.

https://www.motor.no/artikler/2017/oktober/vinterdekk-2017-bremsing-pa-vat-asfalt/


I think we're talking about 2 different things. I think the Hakka to be excellent "Snow" tires. though they may not be the best Winter tires

Which does not do you any good in real life if wet performance is on point being dangerous. That means Nokian is making tires for few million people who live in conditions that warrant 24/7 snow performance, while majority of people live in areas where winter means ice, snow, rain, sun, etc.

And nokian makes different winter tires for different markets.

24/7 snow and ice is for the hakkapeliita line
A mix of everything is with the WR line

Nokian EU label for wet braking for the R2 is a F. The WR D3 is an A.

Best winter tire is dependent on what you need them for. Moving to coastal SoCal, I need a tire now that handles warmer temperatures fine with predictable handling during the week and weekends handle winter conditions when I hit the slopes.

I had WR D3 on 525d. On par with Hankook, and I am being generous.
WS70 I had on Tiguan were better then R2 in wet, as well as Bridgestone DM-V2 which are in class with R2 SUV.
But I guess Nokian maybe want customers to have R2 for snow, and then change to WR in wet?
 
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Originally Posted by krzyss
As decent as Xi3 is it is much worse in warm, dry than Wintersport 4D. I expect newer performance winters to be even better.
I have not driven enough in the wet on 4Ds to have an opinion but I expect them to beat Xi3s in the wet too.

KrzyÅ›

Michelin that is in category with 4D is Pilot Alpin.
 
People here are ignoring the important point which I made earlier and also stated in the links. People are getting too wrapped up in 1 particular aspect of their test results.

2017 test:
Quote
To put it another way:

It is not physically possible to build top features on all surfaces in one and the same deck.

Therefore, you should choose tires based on your driving conditions. Perhaps a tire that is best on wet asphalt and good on snow is right for you


2018 Link:
Quote
In other words, it is about finding the tires with the features that best suit your needs


So, if I buy a tire that prioritizes dry and wet more over snow and ice, then that's fine. That's what I need now, versus conditions before. If conditions call for chains and police is enforcing it, I'll put them on.
 
Originally Posted by krzyss
As decent as Xi3 is it is much worse in warm, dry than Wintersport 4D. I expect newer performance winters to be even better.
I have not driven enough in the wet on 4Ds to have an opinion but I expect them to beat Xi3s in the wet too.

KrzyÅ›

That's because the xi3 isn't designed for warmer weather, despite its higher speed rating than its key competitors. All that siping on the xi3 gives it some squirmy tread blocks, compared to the dunlop wintersports with less siping in the tread blocks. The xi3 will be better in the snow and ice than the dunlops. That's the tradeoff you make going from the xi3 to the wintersport or other "performance" winter tire.

The EU rating for the xi3 in the wet braking is also pretty low (F) versus a C for the wintersport
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
People here are ignoring the important point which I made earlier and also stated in the links. People are getting too wrapped up in 1 particular aspect of their test results.

2017 test:
Quote
To put it another way:

It is not physically possible to build top features on all surfaces in one and the same deck.

Therefore, you should choose tires based on your driving conditions. Perhaps a tire that is best on wet asphalt and good on snow is right for you


2018 Link:
Quote
In other words, it is about finding the tires with the features that best suit your needs


So, if I buy a tire that prioritizes dry and wet more over snow and ice, then that's fine. That's what I need now, versus conditions before. If conditions call for chains and police is enforcing it, I'll put them on.

Sure, you put whatever suits you. If you need to drive in snow 88 out of 90 days, yeah, R2 or R3 makes a lot of sense.
However, this mambo jumbo how Nokian is best winter tire manufacturer, or nonsense how it has second to none R&D is becoming more ridiculous then Liqui Moly marketing strategy around oversized Made in Germany letters.
Nokian is good manufacturer. Is it in same league as Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental, Pirelli? No.
The really tricky part is making tires that perform in snow and ice good and good in wet and dry. I had some 15 years ago Sava S3 that had equal capabilities as R2 in snow and ice, and similarly miserable in dry and wet. Not really big deal making tire like that. Others did it before Nokian became best thing after sliced bread.
 
Originally Posted by Pew
Is there anywhere that has the results of mileage or tire wear? I've always ran snow tires in the winter but with the amount of road trips I do, I'm not sure if I can justify buying winter tires that'll only last me one, maybe two seasons max. Especially when I drive from Illinois through Colorado, Utah, then down to Arizona and Texas in the winter.


UtQG wear rating is not required. So you don't have any relative metric to guesstimate wear.

Maybe for your case, carry chains for the snow states when they have chain controls in place, assuming that your car/wheel/tire combo can accept the standard style chains. thule/konig k-summit and spikes spider costs as much as winter tires themselves, but don't wrap behind the tire.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
People here are ignoring the important point which I made earlier and also stated in the links. People are getting too wrapped up in 1 particular aspect of their test results.

2017 test:
Quote
To put it another way:

It is not physically possible to build top features on all surfaces in one and the same deck.

Therefore, you should choose tires based on your driving conditions. Perhaps a tire that is best on wet asphalt and good on snow is right for you


2018 Link:
Quote
In other words, it is about finding the tires with the features that best suit your needs


So, if I buy a tire that prioritizes dry and wet more over snow and ice, then that's fine. That's what I need now, versus conditions before. If conditions call for chains and police is enforcing it, I'll put them on.

Sure, you put whatever suits you. If you need to drive in snow 88 out of 90 days, yeah, R2 or R3 makes a lot of sense.
However, this mambo jumbo how Nokian is best winter tire manufacturer, or nonsense how it has second to none R&D is becoming more ridiculous then Liqui Moly marketing strategy around oversized Made in Germany letters.
Nokian is good manufacturer. Is it in same league as Michelin, Bridgestone, Continental, Pirelli? No.
The really tricky part is making tires that perform in snow and ice good and good in wet and dry. I had some 15 years ago Sava S3 that had equal capabilities as R2 in snow and ice, and similarly miserable in dry and wet. Not really big deal making tire like that. Others did it before Nokian became best thing after sliced bread.


Its called effective marketing techniques employed by Nokian, not to mention some cheating by them over the years when magazines/testers ask manufacturers to supply them with tires (which people overlook their cheating).

All companies have marketing departments. How effective they can be is up to them.

Consumer reports uses their subscription money to purchase test samples from local retailers. This prevents Nokian from creating
 
Last edited:
Quote
Its called effective marketing techniques employed by Nokian, not to mention some cheating by them over the years when magazines/testers ask manufacturers to supply them with tires (which people overlook their cheating).

All companies have marketing departments. How effective they can be is up to them.

Absolutely. I agree with you. However, that does not mean they are selling product on par with others. Those are two different things. Nokian is in business of making money, and if people actually think they have second to none R&D that means actually they made good choices. Considering they were nowhere to be found 20 years ago, they did good.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Its called effective marketing techniques employed by Nokian, not to mention some cheating by them over the years when magazines/testers ask manufacturers to supply them with tires (which people overlook their cheating).

All companies have marketing departments. How effective they can be is up to them.

Absolutely. I agree with you. However, that does not mean they are selling product on par with others. Those are two different things. Nokian is in business of making money, and if people actually think they have second to none R&D that means actually they made good choices. Considering they were nowhere to be found 20 years ago, they did good.


Like I said, a big part of their reputation is from cheating in the tests by supplying testers with the best sample they can give them, not production stock.

Nokian had a small following and couldn't break through with the big companies until their rigged samples started to win tests.

That's why Consumer reports is more believable imo.
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Its called effective marketing techniques employed by Nokian, not to mention some cheating by them over the years when magazines/testers ask manufacturers to supply them with tires (which people overlook their cheating).

All companies have marketing departments. How effective they can be is up to them.

Absolutely. I agree with you. However, that does not mean they are selling product on par with others. Those are two different things. Nokian is in business of making money, and if people actually think they have second to none R&D that means actually they made good choices. Considering they were nowhere to be found 20 years ago, they did good.


Like I said, a big part of their reputation is from cheating in the tests by supplying testers with the best sample they can give them, not production stock.

Nokian had a small following and couldn't break through with the big companies until their rigged samples started to win tests.

That's why Consumer reports is more believable imo.

Yeah I remember that episode. I am not sure whether that pushed them this far, but it helped.
Though we have to take into consideration that in Scandinavia they are known name, in the US they have this new fallowing. In rest of the Europe they are having bit more issues penetrating.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Pelican said:
edyvw said:
Snagglefoot said:
I
We in North America do not get Euro versions of Good Year tires. Their winter tires for two decades until some 2008 were second to none. Nokian was not on the map back then.


I had Nokian winters on my 1995 Nissan Maxima and they performed beautifully, they were very much on the map here.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by E365
^ +1

In the 2017 NAF Test, the Nokian Hakka R2 was dead-last in the wet asphalt braking test. Behind all the cheap Chinese tires.

https://www.motor.no/artikler/2017/oktober/vinterdekk-2017-bremsing-pa-vat-asfalt/


I think we're talking about 2 different things. I think the Hakka to be excellent "Snow" tires. though they may not be the best Winter tires

Which does not do you any good in real life if wet performance is on point being dangerous. That means Nokian is making tires for few million people who live in conditions that warrant 24/7 snow performance, while majority of people live in areas where winter means ice, snow, rain, sun, etc.


Tires are "Tools" you get the tools that suits your situation, Nokian makes tire for snowy areas, others make tires for different conditions, but when it comes to snow IMO they have very few peers
 
Originally Posted by SubLGT
2018 ADAC test of 205/55R16H "Central European winter tires" (aka "performance winters")

https://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tes...omponentId=327012&SourcePageId=31821

Last time I checked TS860 is NOT performance winter tire, nor Good Year UG9, nor Michelin Alpin 5 etc.
Those are winter tires. These are performance winter tires:
Good Year Ultra Grip Performance

Or this:

Michelin Pilot Alpin 5
Michelin Pilot Alpin

Continental's winter performance tires have P at the end like 830P or 850P.
 
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