2018 Mazda 3 SkyActive 2.0

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Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by littlehulkster



I've always thought those sorts of things were highly overblown anyway. The fact is, cars are built by machines. The machines perform exactly the same regardless of if they're in Mexico, China, the US or Japan.

German car fanboys used to be particularly bad about that sort of thing, blaming the design faults in their cars on the Mexican workers when in reality a Mexican hand probably never touches the car until it's already finished.


The company I worked for outsource one of our labor intensive clean room environment to Mexico. They spent mult-millions of dollars on the facility and employed about 200. We had made the product in the US for about $90 they made it in this new plant for a little over thirty dollars. The problem was 4 out of 5 would not meet spec. They would not stop eating in the clean room was the problem even thought they had a huge modern lunch facility. They fired some people (management) and started over a month later they were back to square 1. They repeated this process 4 or 5 times. Every time it was the same they'd show up for a surprise inspection of the facility and everyone would be eating in the clean room. At fifteen months they wrote it off and brought in back to Washington State.


I have some very serious doubts that this actually happened. Were I to wager a guess, I'd say that it was a failing of management blamed on the workers in an attempt to cover their own [censored]. Mexicans aren't inherently stupid people, and Mexico is one of the world's largest exporters of aerospace parts, for example. A simple google search shows me that Mexico has loads of firms that specialize in cleanroom work. They can and do produce goods of equivalent quality to anyone else in the world. Furthermore, as I said, most of the work on cars is done by machines, and there is little to no input from human beings.

I find it much more difficult to believe that Mexican workers couldn't comprehend what a clean room was than I would an idiot boss trying to use racism to cover his own [censored].



Well it did happen and the Company was Boeing. The people that were let go first were management after they failed to follow process. Yes a lot you know!
 
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Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by littlehulkster



I've always thought those sorts of things were highly overblown anyway. The fact is, cars are built by machines. The machines perform exactly the same regardless of if they're in Mexico, China, the US or Japan.

German car fanboys used to be particularly bad about that sort of thing, blaming the design faults in their cars on the Mexican workers when in reality a Mexican hand probably never touches the car until it's already finished.


The company I worked for outsource one of our labor intensive clean room environment to Mexico. They spent mult-millions of dollars on the facility and employed about 200. We had made the product in the US for about $90 they made it in this new plant for a little over thirty dollars. The problem was 4 out of 5 would not meet spec. They would not stop eating in the clean room was the problem even thought they had a huge modern lunch facility. They fired some people (management) and started over a month later they were back to square 1. They repeated this process 4 or 5 times. Every time it was the same they'd show up for a surprise inspection of the facility and everyone would be eating in the clean room. At fifteen months they wrote it off and brought in back to Washington State.


I have some very serious doubts that this actually happened. Were I to wager a guess, I'd say that it was a failing of management blamed on the workers in an attempt to cover their own [censored]. Mexicans aren't inherently stupid people, and Mexico is one of the world's largest exporters of aerospace parts, for example. A simple google search shows me that Mexico has loads of firms that specialize in cleanroom work. They can and do produce goods of equivalent quality to anyone else in the world. Furthermore, as I said, most of the work on cars is done by machines, and there is little to no input from human beings.

I find it much more difficult to believe that Mexican workers couldn't comprehend what a clean room was than I would an idiot boss trying to use racism to cover his own [censored].



Well it did happen and the Company was Boeing. The people that were let go first were management after they failed to follow process. Yes a lot you know!


Given as Boeing still produces a lot of parts in Mexico, and has been rapidly increasing it's capacity down there, I'd imagine this alleged incident was more a failing of management than the workers.

Originally Posted by PimTac
It's really dependent on the system the manufacturer has in place. I know that Japanese automakers have key people from Japan at their plants around the world. Close monitoring is essential.

A prime example is the Toyota Tacoma frame fiasco. Steps were not followed by the outsource company. Nobody was watching. In that case Dana who was the company chosen to supply the frames was at fault.


Yeah, that's the key. Fishing reels are one example I'm quite knowledgeable on. Both some of the very best and very worst fishing reels are made in China. The bad companies simply specify X number of units with Y features at Z price, and let whichever Chinese contractor they choose deliver the product. In that situation, not having clearly specified (or paid for) tight QC, they tend to get an inconsistent at best product with corners often cut to increase the supplier's profits. After all, it's not a breach of contract to replace a brass gear with zinc to save yourself money if a brass gear was never specified in the contract. Many of these companies don't even design anything and just pick one of a wide variety of Chinese shelf reels and have their logo printed on it.

Now, the good companies (Shimano and Daiwa, for example) are designing their own reels, and having them built by their employees in factories they own. The factories are in China, yes, but they are Shimano and Daiwa factories, not Shenyang Gear and Pinion Works. Shimano and Daiwa exercise control of every portion of the design, manufacture and sale of the reels, and because of that they get a consistently good quality product. Even a lot of the most expensive, ultra high quality saltwater reels are made in China now (Van Stall) and their quality has not taken a hit in most cases.

The Chinese, as it turns out, are NOT stupid or incapable people. They can build high quality products if they need to. Same with Mexicans, or really anyone else. Machines do most of the work these days, after all. Humans are only there for QC.
 
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Originally Posted by littlehulkster
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
The Chinese, as it turns out, are NOT stupid or incapable people. They can build high quality products if they need to. Same with Mexicans, or really anyone else. Machines do most of the work these days, after all. Humans are only there for QC.


I'm not arguing against your stance other than the idea that "machines do most of the work" in auto manufacturing. Welding, paint and a few other things but 97% of the assembly is done by humans. It's not like a plant has 4000 quality control people. Watch any YouTube video from any manufacture and it's mostly humans assembling the cars.
 
Originally Posted by wolf_06
Gooday folks,

I started back shopping for a car, my cruze started costing me too much in parts.

Today I tried a Mazda 3 2018, GS trim with the 2.0 L, 6 speed auto.

How reliable is this engine tranny combo? How is the maintenance cost? And also, is it direct injection?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.



Go for it, awesome car and value. I would personally get the Skyactive engine for no other reason then we have a 2012 Mazda 3 in the family with the Skyactive. Car has been rock solid reliable for the last 6 years and 75,000 miles.

I have become a Mazda "person" now, first one we ever had and the next will be a CX5.
Road noise?

Every car has a negative in the press and in ANY consumer reports and any car anywhere around the size and price range of the Mazda will have the same road noise, its not bad/same as any other small car and it's a blast to drive. There is NO engine noise or drivetrain noise, just tire noise so lets get off that subject because others will comment on what they read in the press and you will never buy any car.

Ask people who drive one, not people commenting on news stories in the press. Again, yes, like any small car you will have some road noise but you will NOT have any drivetrain noise.

There has been no maintenance cost for us, except for the usual oil changes, one set of tires, battery and air filter.
NO repairs needed at all yet and this was a first year production Skyactive engine.
Freaking gas mileage is amazing, uses regular gas in the highest compression mass produced engine in the world.
Mazda has their act together.

What the heck more could anyone ask for ? :o)
 
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I'd rather see things made in Mexico than China … no excuses for poor QAQC

3D318C79-B008-4EA9-B5C3-CC0864A0D6FD.webp
 
I bought a Canyon and the truck had road noise …
Well the stereo was not the best … so while upgrading door speakers I put down one layer of Dynamat and one layer of 3M closed cell foam. (They do different things, but both scissors and peel n stick) …
That worked so well I lifted the carpet at the door jam and did 80% of the floorboards like that and rear wall (easy) …
Huge difference for $300 (not counting the infinity speakers, had them already) … Not a long job either …

think it helped keep the black truck cooler … perhaps the foil on Dynamat blocked some radiant heat + foam insulation
Of course the stereo sounded great now …
 
Originally Posted by skyactiv

The one thing Mazda needs to do to improve the Mazda3 is add more sound deadening. Consumer Reports complains about the road noise. The car lets in too much road noise at high driving speeds.
\


They did. I own a 2018 as well. I believe 2016 or 17 and up.

OP. Engine and transmission are very reliable in Mazdas. Go for it. They're fun to drive and cheap to maintain.
 
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
The Chinese, as it turns out, are NOT stupid or incapable people. They can build high quality products if they need to. Same with Mexicans, or really anyone else. Machines do most of the work these days, after all. Humans are only there for QC.


I'm not arguing against your stance other than the idea that "machines do most of the work" in auto manufacturing. Welding, paint and a few other things but 97% of the assembly is done by humans. It's not like a plant has 4000 quality control people. Watch any YouTube video from any manufacture and it's mostly humans assembling the cars.





A modern assembly plant will reverse that figure. The humans are there to feed the machines, ie keeping stock supplied. In the Mazda videos I've seen, assembly is by robots for the vast majority of assembly. Even the engine manufacturing and assembly is almost all robots and automatons. Humans install the valve assemblies and the bolt ons.

I'm not trying to get political with this but the American union plants still have humans doing some of the assembly. If you compare those to the non union plants in the south it's a different story.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
The Chinese, as it turns out, are NOT stupid or incapable people. They can build high quality products if they need to. Same with Mexicans, or really anyone else. Machines do most of the work these days, after all. Humans are only there for QC.


I'm not arguing against your stance other than the idea that "machines do most of the work" in auto manufacturing. Welding, paint and a few other things but 97% of the assembly is done by humans. It's not like a plant has 4000 quality control people. Watch any YouTube video from any manufacture and it's mostly humans assembling the cars.





A modern assembly plant will reverse that figure. The humans are there to feed the machines, ie keeping stock supplied. In the Mazda videos I've seen, assembly is by robots for the vast majority of assembly. Even the engine manufacturing and assembly is almost all robots and automatons. Humans install the valve assemblies and the bolt ons.

I'm not trying to get political with this but the American union plants still have humans doing some of the assembly. If you compare those to the non union plants in the south it's a different story.


Right, and even when humans are doing some work, they're generally doing so with the assistance of specialized tools which make the task virtually impossible to mess up.

With the amount of money on the line, and the fairly tight margins involved, no car manufacturer would ever build their stuff in a country with a workforce that couldn't measure up. They'd go broke in record time.

Now, when it comes to automation in general, there are an awful lot of people who think that ever increasing automation, and the job losses it will inevitably cause, is going to be the next major political crisis in the world. How we handle that, and how we should, is probably not a discussion for a motor oil forum.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
JohnnyJohnson said:
littlehulkster said:
The Chinese, as it turns out, are NOT stupid or incapable people. They can build high quality products if they need to. Same with Mexicans, or really anyone else. Machines do most of the work these days, after all. Humans are only there for QC.


I'm not arguing against your stance other than the idea that "machines do most of the work" in auto manufacturing. Welding, paint and a few other things but 97% of the assembly is done by humans. It's not like a plant has 4000 quality control people. Watch any YouTube video from any manufacture and it's mostly humans assembling the cars.





A modern assembly plant will reverse that figure. The humans are there to feed the machines, ie keeping stock supplied. In the Mazda videos I've seen, assembly is by robots for the vast majority of assembly. Even the engine manufacturing and assembly is almost all robots and automatons. Humans install the valve assemblies and the bolt ons.

I'm not trying to get political with this but the American union plants still have humans doing some of the assembly. If you compare those to the non union plants in the south it's a different story.



REALLY? https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/humans-vs-robots-the-car-production-debate-1.976017

I can watch YouTube video after YouTube video of current cars being produced and 95% is still done by human. From the above article....

"We can't find anything to take the place of the human touch and of human senses like sight, hearing and smell," Tom Shoupe, the chief operating officer of Honda's Ohio manufacturing unit, said in an interview.

Honda isn't alone. Japanese rival Toyota Motor Corp. (TM.N) uses just a handful of robots on the Camry final assembly line at its plant in Georgetown, Kentucky, and has no plans to add more, according to Mark Boire, chief production engineer. Markus Schaefer, production chief at Mercedes-Benz, in 2016 said the carmaker was de-automating and relying more on humans to install the endless array of options that luxury customers demand."


"Like other carmakers, Honda does use robots for almost all painting and welding. The company even installed an all-new weld shop with 342 robots to make the Accord's redesigned metal body. But in final assembly, where workers install motors, wheels and interior trim components, the level of automation hasn't changed much since the Marysville opened, according to plant manager Rob May.
The 10th generation Accord, which Honda began building in high volume in September, is still made with a balanced combination of manpower and machine. Before the company launched the new model, it installed a big blue robot to lift rear suspensions up into the bottom of the car. But it also assigned two humans to place six bolts and four brackets on the suspension before the robot begins its lifting."
 
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Mazda assembly and manufacturing Hiroshima.

https://youtu.be/NOFuldRkGcs



BMW plant in Carolina.

https://youtu.be/vYnXfOKVQ28


In the case of Mazda, multiple vehicles are assembled on the same line. That goes for the engines as well.

It really depends on the plant. A lot of variables are involved. For newer assembly plants the amount of automation is staggering. Older plants may not be as automated thus more humans.


Edit to add: quality control can be established at keys points and not at every step of assembly. The robots use lasers and bar codes or other confirmation methods to ensure the part or the process is done correctly.
 
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Mazda assembly and manufacturing Hiroshima.

https://youtu.be/NOFuldRkGcs



BMW plant in Carolina.

https://youtu.be/vYnXfOKVQ28


In the case of Mazda, multiple vehicles are assembled on the same line. That goes for the engines as well.

It really depends on the plant. A lot of variables are involved. For newer assembly plants the amount of automation is staggering. Older plants may not be as automated thus more humans.


Edit to add: quality control can be established at keys points and not at every step of assembly. The robots use lasers and bar codes or other confirmation methods to ensure the part or the process is done correctly.



I only watched the Mazda video and in that video, sure, welding of the unibody and paint as well as moving around of the body shell and heavy raw materials is done via robot (same for Toyota/Honda) but the rest (A HUGE amount) of the final assembly is done by humans. Like bumpers, doors, windshield, rear glass, trunk, hood, carpets, seats, all interior trim, dash, center console, all accessories, safety monitors, suspension, engine, transmission, etc, etc, etc. All built by humans. As said in the above article...robots can not yet do what humans can and they do not have the dexterity in small confined spaces. The net result is a HUGH (Most) of any car is still built by human hands. Every factory still employs thousands of line workers....they're doing something.
 
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Just watched the BMW video too...the only difference was windshield/read glass is robot installed. Other than that it was welding of the unibody and paint and everything else was human assembled.
 
FREAKING AMAZING, the OP asks about a Mazda 3 car and people in this thread start a discussion that has NOTHING to do with the subject.
Good god, start your own thread.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
FREAKING AMAZING, the OP asks about a Mazda 3 car and people in this thread start a discussion that has NOTHING to do with the subject.
Good god, start your own thread.



Good God the forum police has arrived...get off your soap box. The discussion has evolved into discussing if the Mazda3 being made in Mexico with modern production techniques/robots vs local workforce has any bearing on the quality of the product - something the OP maybe interested in when trying to decide if he wants to buy the car.
 
Oops, got it PWM ...

With that said, Mazda 3 has been made in Mexico since around 1014.
True our 2012 was made in Japan which is kind of cool but I do feel, other then the cool factor, it doesnt matter where a car is made, its the company and its management, not the country.

My son works at the largest BWM plant in the entire world, right here in South Carolina.

Its an awesome place, with amazing attention to detail and quality control, again, its the company and its management, not the country but it is kind of cool a German Car Company, BMW, is the largest exporter of cars in the United States.
 
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