2017 Honda CRV, 1.5 Turbo, Mobil AFE 0W-30

[buster]

Originally Posted by wemay

I don't recall ever seeing 0w20 oils falling out of spec.

I don't either. People that move up to a 0w30 do so thinking the higher viscosity will offset the viscosity loss due to fuel dilution. They end up with a 20 grade anyway, and the breakdown of the VII's.

 

[double vanos]

"Imagine if I started with a 20 weight, yikes." Devolves into that new fangled 0w8 they're talking about

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by buster

People that move up to a 0w30 do so thinking the higher viscosity will offset the viscosity loss due to fuel dilution. They end up with a 20 grade anyway, and the breakdown of the VII's.

I find it hard to believe that a modern VII additive would break down with some fuel dilution. Gasoline is refined from crude oil. The same crude oil that is refined into GRP II / III motor oils.

 

[bulwnkl]

I wouldn't waste my money on the ‘euro' formula oils. They're no better resisting fuel or its effects. Remember the Audi A8(?) work some years ago; it demonstrated the mediocrity of the euro formulae with complete clarity. Renewable Lubes' product was the only thing that was significantly better than other options.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by bulwnkl

I wouldn't waste my money on the ‘euro' formula oils. They're no better resisting fuel or its effects. Remember the Audi A8(?) work some years ago; it demonstrated the mediocrity of the euro formulae with complete clarity. Renewable Lubes' product was the only thing that was significantly better than other options.

I think the reason people use the Euro 30W oils in these newer TGDI engines is that, compared to the 0W-20 oil they call for, one of the higher HTHS Euro oils will still end up with higher viscosity at the end of an OCI in one of these fuel diluters. My fiancée has a 2018 Civic 1.5T, and that's what I would use if hers wasn't under warranty. She just feels more comfortable using the grade of oil that the book calls for, while she's still under factory warranty. And I'm saving all receipts, and even taking pictures of the bottles with date stamp when I do her oil changes, just in case. I know Honda has extended the factory powertrain warranty mileage to unlimited miles (it can still time out after 5 years) in certain engine components that have been commonly affected in the cars that have been deemed to have been damaged by the severe fuel dilution. As it stands now, I have enough Valvoline Modern Engine and M1 Annual Performance 0W-20 that I snagged at the Auto Zone clearance for $2/quart, to do her oil changes at 5000-mile intervals for the next 2.5 years, if she continues at the 20,000 miles per year that she put on it in her first year owning it. So it'll be an experiment. I plan on getting some UOAs and probably VOAs as well on those oils. I hope she doesn't have an issue with her 1.5T, and I really don't expect her to, because we change the oil every 5K with good quality synthetic, keep an eye on the level, use premium name-brand fuel, and deliberately take it out for longer drives to fight fuel buildup in the oil. If we do have a problem, oh well, it's under warranty for 4 more years, and I document all maintenance to a "T".

 

[Revving2Redline]

I have been looking at new Accord,Civic HB,and CRV.I think I will probably try 0w30 or 5w30 Redline. I think QSUD 5w30 or Magnatec 5w30 would work during summer.

 

[06_lx]

Perhaps someone can educate me a little. What will a premium quality fuel do to help the dilution situation? Besides the obvious benefits of better combustion, less desposits, etc. It will still be direct injected and get past the piston rings. What am I missing?

 

[parshisa]

30k miles with 5w30 in my 1.5T civic, great mpg and no dilution to speak of. Wear numbers on uoa are excellent. These engines don't care much about the oil grade

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted by 06_lx

Perhaps someone can educate me a little. What will a premium quality fuel do to help the dilution situation? Besides the obvious benefits of better combustion, less desposits, etc. It will still be direct injected and get past the piston rings. What am I missing?

The theory seems to be that Honda tunes engines to respond to pre-ignition by enrichening the fuel-air mixture in addition to or instead of retarding timing. Personal experience with a non-turbo DI Honda suggests there's something to this.

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted by 06_lx

Perhaps someone can educate me a little. What will a premium quality fuel do to help the dilution situation? Besides the obvious benefits of better combustion, less desposits, etc. It will still be direct injected and get past the piston rings. What am I missing?

Running premium most likely won't do much for the dilution problem. Some people argue that running premium results in less fuel in the oil because they reason that the engine will have a greater tendency to knock on regular gas, and the knock sensors will detect any knocking and the EFI system will adjust fueling, making it richer (injecting more fuel for cooling) to quell knocking. And some people figure that running premium will reduce overall knocking tendency, and allow the engine to run more lean overall. Personally, I feel that the driver's right foot has a lot more to do with it. For example, if you tend to shift early and lug it (my fiancée does this), the EFI is going to spray more fuel in at that moment in the effort to fight LSPI. OTOH, if you're lighter on the gas pedal at lower RPM, and hold your gears longer (which is better for an engine anyway, because engines hate lugging and need RPM to work efficiently), it should result in lower chances for LSPI events, and less fuel dilution. We just use premium because it's a small-cube turbo engine and my fiancée tends to shift early (it's a 6-speed). May also have a minimal benefit for intake tract cleanliness and just overall engine cleanliness. But make no mistake, these engines are knock sensor-equipped, and can adjust for lower octane gas.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by john_pifer

Originally Posted by 06_lx

Perhaps someone can educate me a little. What will a premium quality fuel do to help the dilution situation? Besides the obvious benefits of better combustion, less desposits, etc. It will still be direct injected and get past the piston rings. What am I missing?

Running premium most likely won't do much for the dilution problem. Some people argue that running premium results in less fuel in the oil because they reason that the engine will have a greater tendency to knock on regular gas, and the knock sensors will detect any knocking and the EFI system will adjust fueling, making it richer (injecting more fuel for cooling) to quell knocking. And some people figure that running premium will reduce overall knocking tendency, and allow the engine to run more lean overall. Personally, I feel that the driver's right foot has a lot more to do with it. For example, if you tend to shift early and lug it (my fiancée does this), the EFI is going to spray more fuel in at that moment in the effort to fight LSPI. OTOH, if you're lighter on the gas pedal at lower RPM, and hold your gears longer (which is better for an engine anyway, because engines hate lugging and need RPM to work efficiently), it should result in lower chances for LSPI events, and less fuel dilution. We just use premium because it's a small-cube turbo engine and my fiancée tends to shift early (it's a 6-speed). May also have a minimal benefit for intake tract cleanliness and just overall engine cleanliness. But make no mistake, these engines are knock sensor-equipped, and can adjust for lower octane gas.

Get Euro oils ACEA A3/B3 or C3. Cosidering it is Honda and LSPI is present among Asian manufacturers, I would go SN+, but still Euro grades as they are heavier oils.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by geeman789

Originally Posted by buster

People that move up to a 0w30 do so thinking the higher viscosity will offset the viscosity loss due to fuel dilution. They end up with a 20 grade anyway, and the breakdown of the VII's.

I find it hard to believe that a modern VII additive would break down with some fuel dilution. Gasoline is refined from crude oil. The same crude oil that is refined into GRP II / III motor oils.

My mazda turned m1 0w-30 to a 8cst oil. So yes its in a 20wt grade. I think its purely due to fuel, not shearing, but how would one know? I'd rather have a 30wt go to 8cst than a 20wt go to 6cst.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted by spasm3

My mazda turned m1 0w-30 to a 8cst oil. So yes its in a 20wt grade. I think its purely due to fuel, not shearing, but how would one know? I'd rather have a 30wt go to 8cst than a 20wt go to 6cst.

It seems what was old school, the 3000 mile oil change, has now become a requirement for modern direct injection engines. Didn't SOMEBODY see this in pre-production testing ?

 

[ChrisD46]

Other than being thicker at 100 C. I question the additive make up of the Euro synthetic oils by Pennzoil / Mobil and whether they are a good match for US gasolines ?

Originally Posted by bulwnkl

I wouldn't waste my money on the ‘euro' formula oils. They're no better resisting fuel or its effects. Remember the Audi A8(?) work some years ago; it demonstrated the mediocrity of the euro formulae with complete clarity. Renewable Lubes' product was the only thing that was significantly better than other options.

 

[demarpaint]

I'd love to see how ESP 0W20 or 0W30 would have done. IMO the ESP oils are the best of the bunch from XOM.

 

[ARB1977]

Back when we had our 18 CRV with the 1.5LT there was no fuel rise for the first 14K miles. At the 20K mark there's was 1.5 qrts of fuel in the pan when I measured. I used Amsoil SS 0W20 and followed the olm. We got rid of the CRV for a 19 Pilot because wifey wanted something bigger.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by ARB1977

Back when we had our 18 CRV with the 1.5LT there was no fuel rise for the first 14K miles. At the 20K mark there's was 1.5 qrts of fuel in the pan when I measured. I used Amsoil SS 0W20 and followed the olm. We got rid of the CRV for a 19 Pilot because wifey wanted something bigger.

That works out to something like 30-40% fuel dilution. You would think something bad would happen at that point.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

You think this might be one of the reason's Honda still has 2019 models for sale. Honda just had a large QC summit in Japan they are aware they have problems. Pushing them on the customer isn't what sells your product and creates brand loyalty.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson

You think this might be one of the reason's Honda still has 2019 models for sale. Honda just had a large QC summit in Japan they are aware they have problems. Pushing them on the customer isn't what sells your product and creates brand loyalty.

Hopefully that summit wasn't just all talk and no action. Honda Motor Company needs to go back to their roots. Look at how Toyota and Mazda among others are doing exactly that. Nissan needs to do the same as well.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by PimTac

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson

You think this might be one of the reason's Honda still has 2019 models for sale. Honda just had a large QC summit in Japan they are aware they have problems. Pushing them on the customer isn't what sells your product and creates brand loyalty.

Hopefully that summit wasn't just all talk and no action. Honda Motor Company needs to go back to their roots. Look at how Toyota and Mazda among others are doing exactly that. Nissan needs to do the same as well.

Yes they all do and if their honest about it look for DI to removed or re-engineered.