2017 F150 2.7 M1 5w30

[Purpfox]

New to the forum, but been stalking for a while.
Since I run the Oil analysis program at work figured I'd run samples on my truck.

Seeing that the viscosity is dropping so fast, thinking i may look into trying a 0W40

sample on the 10th was a full run per the oil minder on the truck @ 5% remaining

sample on the 24th is 33 hrs, 1000 miles (10% per oil minder calculation)

Also decided to run a PC to see how decent or crap oem filtering is.





Code
Sample Date Oil Ref 10/10/2018 10/24/2018

Sample # REF 39795 39907

Lab #

Analyst

Unique ID 39795 39907

Wear Status 0 0

Cont Status 0 0

Chem Status 72 21

Unit Usage 1108

Oil Usage 33

Aluminum 1.52 5.97 3.58

Antimony 0.45 1.52 0.92

Barium 0 0.03 0.02

Boron 84.04 24.82 61.5

Cadmium 0 0 0.02

Calcium 1,073 999.53 822.8

Chromium 0 0.48 0.11

Copper 0.04 4.09 0.89

Iron 0.8 18.6 6.3

Lead 0.08 0 0

Magnesium 499.24 544.9 461.14

Molybdenum 78.76 69.28 74.09

Nickel 0.09 0.37 0

Phosphorus 653.37 670.82 705.36

Potassium 0.14 4.4 0.8

Silicon 4.6 23.65 17.24

Silver 0.01 0.01 0.02

Sodium 7.99 4.84 9.73

Tin 0.06 1.59 2.37

Vanadium 1.66 1.35 1.58

Zinc 1,025 899.23 906.63

Manganese 0.02 1.1 0.15

Titanium 0.03 0 0

Add Depletion 57 70

Cnts >4 13,687

Cnts >6 1,788

Cnts >10 264

Cnts >14 104

Cnts >18 55

Cnts >22 36

Cnts >26 17

Cnts >32 13

Cnts >38 8

Cnts >56 2.5

Cnts >70 1.2

ISO >4 21

ISO >6 18

ISO >14 14

Glycol Vol 0 0

IR Fuel

IR Oxidation 7.77 14.98 9.75

IR Nitration 4.72 28.52 10.96

IR Sulfation 16.62 21.87 18.13

Visc 40C 66 49.1 56.5

Visc 100C 11.7 9.3 10.3

Visc Idx 172

MxD Ox >50 2

Total Base 6.87 1.47 5.07

Specific Grav 0.855

MxD Ot >20 2

Fuel Vol

PC Vol < 6u 0.68

PC Vol 6-14u 0.47

PC Vol >14u 1.15

Soot LEM/TGA 0 0

PPM Water 129 0

MxD Ot >50 1

Fe >21

Fe >25 3

Fe >50 1

Fe >100 0

Fe >38 2

 

[tcp71]

i run 0w40 year round in my 2016 3.5tt F150.

 

[CT8]

The M1 starts out on the thin end of the 30 w to begin with I have been running M1 high mile 5W-30 in my 2015 2,7 and it has Fords approval numbers. That said I am Running M1 0W-40 in the wifes 2018 F350 6.2. The uoa is intense we will have to have you explain all the info. and welcome and it seems you have much to add to this sites knowledge base.

 

[Cujet]

Seems like a robust 5W-40 would be a good choice.

 

[double vanos]

I'm at 121k miles on my ‘11 EB , most of it with Edge 0w40 and she's quiet as a mouse. 0w40 THE OIL for the EB series IMHO.

 

[oil_film_movies]

KV100 went from 11.0 (or 11.7 depending on if you believe Mobil or the baseline lab result), to about 9.3 cSt, still a 5w30 weight. It did not shear out of grade going an entire oil change interval to 5% remaining.
Therefore, you wouldn't necessarily have to start using a 0w40. Its not a bad idea. In TX where its warm a 0w40 would work. However, Ford did start making a fuss about going to SN+ (LSPI resistance) which almost every 0w40 would not qualify for. Mobil1 ESP dexos2 0w40 might though.
Also, you got 18 ppm iron on the long run, and you would have to know what the Universal Average for this engine is to find out if thats OK. I see another UOA of this engine by Blackstone is saying 20 ppm per 6,000 miles is about right. Since we have no way of knowing how many miles you put on here, we can only guess if your 18 ppm is about right. Probably is, guessing.

 

[Purpfox]

The reference oil was ran by me in house, so the values are as tested. The big issue with LSPI in the ecoboost is more from carbon build up, hence the quick switch to dual injection in the 18 models.
The Viscosity change @100c is 11.9%, in industrial oils we start alerting at this value, any greater than 20% time for a change. that said, Each oil change i will be performing a new VOA to compare with as each batch of oil produced tends to have minor changes.
only thing i wish i had available in house would be a good flash point or fuel testing system.

The extra data in the sample for the 24th is particle count. It would be nice to be able to find a better filter for the 2.7. This was with an oem, so after a couple more rounds i will try a wix, then the pur.

Hopefully I will be able to contribute more to this forum. I run an average of 50 samples or more a month. Anything from small hydraulic systems to 20,000 HP gearboxes.

Still have a lot to learn myself.

 

[dave1251]

I would not switch to a 40 grade the shearing encountered is normal. No abnormal indications of wear. There really is no point other than a need to control a varible and buck the recommendations of the OEM.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by Purpfox
The big issue with LSPI in the ecoboost is more from carbon build up, hence the quick switch to dual injection in the 18 models.
LSPI is low-speed pre-ignition, resembling detonation from Hades, and has nothing to do with deposits on intake valves. Separate issues. .... Motor oil that is SN+ or dexos1 Gen2 has lowered calcium to get rid of LSPI. https://www.oronite.com/about/news/low-speed-pre-ignition.aspx
It is interesting Ford went to dual port-direct injection. Certainly not just for intake valve cleanliness, also very much for power, efficiency, emissions, and smoothness they wanted improvements in. Toyota and Audi have been doing it for about 10 years now for those reasons.
Originally Posted by Purpfox
The Viscosity change @100c is 11.9%, in industrial oils we start alerting at this value, any greater than 20% time for a change.
Its about the same in vehicle engine oils. Really as long as KV100 is within the SAE J300 ranges, the oil is providing Stribeck Curve hydrodynamics Ford wants. https://totachi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Engine-Oil-Viscosity-Classification-J300-.png
http://web.iitd.ac.in/~hirani/lec13.pdf
https://www.azom.com/images/Article_Images/ImageForArticle_12810(1).jpg
I usually adjust KV100 up by a cSt or two using Schaeffer #132 Moly EP (238 cSt KV100) thick liquid, and about a cup is enough, see https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html for exact amount to mix in, and it won't take much with that ester-antimony Schaeffer product thickener. I'll adjust up in the summer, for hard driving, and when fuel dilution is a problem.
Adding a small amount of quality thickener like that allows you to play the Ford Warranty game: Use their spec'ed weight oil to get warranty coverage, and still get enough viscosity (J300 range) on a fuel diluter.

Originally Posted by Purpfox
It would be nice to be able to find a better filter for the 2.7.
The best I know of is the Fram Ultra, with great 4548-12 numbers, yet your application doesn't have an Ultra available. I'd go with a TG11955 fram toughguard for reasons below.
Originally Posted by Purpfox
This was with an oem {oil filter}, so after a couple more rounds i will try a wix, then the pur.
I'd go with a TG11955 fram toughguard (99% 20 microns 4548-12), which has a mix of synthetic and wooden fibers, although about any cartridge oil filter will work just fine. Efficiency of fram toughguards are better than Wix media, getting out more smaller particles. .... Normally Purolators are to be avoided since they are infamous for getting holes in their media, but I think their cartridge type oil filters don't usually have that problem their canister filters do. Still, I'd avoid anything named Purolator, & Motorcraft oil filters are made by Purolator too.

 

[DavidJones]

Originally Posted by Purpfox
ecoboost is more from carbon build up

.


Where have you read that about a 2.7 of any year? I think you're mistaking people lumping the 2.7 in with every other DI engine out there. Some (not all) of which do have carbon issues. I've yet to see or read about a 2.7 that had carbon build-up issues.

 

[Purpfox]

Most havent put enough miles to see the problems, I'm hoping to have an opportunity to use the bore scope here at work to view the intake valves. I can without a doubt say that heavy oil vapor is getting to the valves. This is based on the level of garbage found at the throttle body and the discharge of the CAC.

Also the lpsi can be also attributed to poor driving habits and transmission shifting strategy.
( think about it) Lug the motor and you get unnecessary load, oem sets for comfort and average efficiency.

 

[Purpfox]

Code
Sample Date Oil Ref 11/6 10/24 10/10

Sample # _ 39942 39907 39795

Wear Status . 0 0 0

Cont Status . 0 0 0

Chem Status . 0 21 72

Unit Usage . 1134 1108 1075

Oil Usage . 59 33 .

Aluminum 1.52 4.02 3.58 5.97

Antimony 0.45 2.01 0.92 1.52

Barium 0 0 0.02 0.03

Boron 84.04 58.31 61.5 24.82

Cadmium 0 0 0.02 0

Calcium 1,073 961.8 822.8 999.53

Chromium 0 0.14 0.11 0.48

Copper 0.04 1.29 0.89 4.09

Iron 0.8 8.7 6.3 18.6

Lead 0.08 0 0 0

Magnesium 499.24 506.12 461.14 544.9

Molybdenum 78.76 75.58 74.09 69.28

Nickel 0.09 0.06 0 0.37

Phosphorus 653.37 723.95 705.36 670.82

Potassium 0.14 0.98 0.8 4.4

Silicon 4.6 11.81 17.24 23.65

Silver 0.01 0.03 0.02 0.01

Sodium 7.99 2.28 9.73 4.84

Tin 0.06 1.97 2.37 1.59

Vanadium 1.66 1.42 1.58 1.35

Zinc 1,025 914.11 906.63 899.23

Manganese 0.02 0.25 0.15 1.1

Titanium 0.03 0.01 0 0

Add Depletion 64 70 57

Free Water

MxD Ct >20 4 5

MxD Ct >25 2 4

MxD Ct >50 2 0

MxD Sl >20 5 10

MxD Sl >25 4 9

MxD Sl >50 1 2

MxD Ft >20 6 37

MxD Ft >25 4 23

MxD Ft >50 1 4

MxD Ox >20 14 31

MxD Ox >25 14 23

Cnts >4 17,281 13,687

Cnts >6 1,625 1,788

Cnts >10 101 264

Cnts >14 43 104

Cnts >18 23 55

Cnts >22 19 36

Cnts >26 14 17

Cnts >32 14 13

Cnts >38 7 8

Cnts >56 5 2.5

Cnts >70 2 1.2

ISO >4 21 21

ISO >6 18 18

ISO >14 13 14

Glycol Vol 0 0 0

IR Fuel

IR Oxidation 7.77 10.7 9.75 14.98

IR Soot

IR Nitration 4.72 13.6 10.96 28.52

IR Sulfation 16.62 18.55 18.13 21.87

Visc 40C 66 60.2 56.5 49.1

Visc 100C 11.7 10.8 10.3 9.3

Visc Idx 172

MxD Ox >50 6 2

Total Base 6.87 4.54 5.07 1.47

Specific Grav 0.855

MxD Ot >20 1 2

PC Vol < 6u 0.88 0.68

PC Vol 6-14u 0.36 0.47

PC Vol >14u 1.17 1.15

Soot LEM/TGA 0 0 0

MxD Ot >25 0 2

PPM Water 20 0 129

MxD Ot >50 0 1

Total Fe 0 0



more data with PC. Particle count still holding, base number drops fairly quick but we have had some truly varying weather lately.

 

[PimTac]

"Also the lpsi can be also attributed to poor driving habits and transmission shifting strategy.
( think about it) Lug the motor and you get unnecessary load, oem sets for comfort and average efficiency. "





This is my belief as well. Today's engines do lug on certain scenarios but with the knock sensors and fuel management we don't normally hear it.

Some of the LSPI events I've read about on other forums happen in situations nobody expected. On the Subaru forums, several members commented that their incident happened on a freeway off ramp.

 

[Purpfox]

PimTac. I was a Mazdaspeed Guy lol. lpsi was no joke. I did it the and do it now, Monitor Spark retard and Knock sensor


BTY
Semper Fi

 

[oil_film_movies]

About the LSPI thing, this a special kind of sudden, high energy detonation. Yes it typically occurs at low speeds & high loads, as in when the driver goes full throttle at the point where the tranny finally shifts up. LSPI has been researched a lot, and the consensus seems to be its from particles that adhere to gasoline droplets (very small) and create an early pre-spark explosion.

 

[Purpfox]

Oil_film, yes, and most common on DI type motors. Those whom have tuned motors tend not to see as much due to adjustment of the trans shift strategy.

On the oil side of this posting, everything is still trending quite well, I will change the oil filter to see if another brand can lower the particle count after the next 10% sampling

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by Purpfox

Also the lpsi can be also attributed to poor driving habits and transmission shifting strategy.
( think about it) Lug the motor and you get unnecessary load, oem sets for comfort and average efficiency.



With our 2017 2.3 EB Explorer the shifting points keep the engine at 1200-1600 rpm in the 30-45 mph range. It always feels like it's on the verge of lugging. However if Sport mode is used instead of Drive the rpm range goes up ~300 rpm at the same speeds. This makes for a more pleasant drive. I also use Mobil 1 5W-30 which is Dexos 1 Gen 2 to help combat potential LSPI.

Whimsey

 

[Purpfox]

Whimsey, yep the truck was just as bad, after my tune all the gears hang a little longer to shift keeping me around 2000-2200.

the 2.3 is based off the mazdaspeed 3 motor with some nice upgrades, lpsi was always an issue below 2000, and really recommended not wot untill above 2500rpm