2017 Audi Q7 3.0T - Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30, 2k mi

[RobertISaar]

I'll have some more data points to add into this(Audi 4.0TT rather than 3.0T) in a few months, I need two more Leichtlauf analyses done first to be 100% on baseline wear. Miles add somewhat fast for me though.

I don't know if funky rings are going to be a factor for this engine, but I have a pretty soft usage of it, a -30 run at relatively short interval, even without the magical 502/505 stamp, I don't anticipate running into issues.

 

[ChrisD46]

Not advisable, but you can probably get away with it and clean up the engine in the process. I'm assuming it's out of warranty. The standout difference between this and Euro oil is the viscosity, among other things. Euro has a HT/HS of 3.5. However, no Euro oil I'm aware of can clean piston deposits, assuming you have them. At your own risk obviously.

A couple of Audi options : Run your usual Euro oil using a 50/50 mix with Valvoline Restore and Protect, or add a bottle of Rislone to the usual Euro oil you use. I do not know how Rislone’s cleaners / esters compare to R&P though.

 

[wemay]

He can use whatever he'd like. The VW approved oil is a recommendation. Just like when people use euros in cars where API SP /GF-6 is the recommendation.

Hopefully the R&P does what it claims and the pistons free up those rings.

 

[Tusflyer]

Not to further hijack this thread with HPL fodder but I’ve got an updated analysis for comparisons sake. Interestingly after my first sample my insolubles increased from .1 to 1.5 in less than 3000 miles. I did change the filter from Mahle to WIX after the first sample. Did my filter fail?

 

[Jetronic]

Not to further hijack this thread with HPL fodder but I’ve got an updated analysis for comparisons sake. Interestingly after my first sample my insolubles increased from .1 to 1.5 in less than 3000 miles. I did change the filter from Mahle to WIX after the first sample. Did my filter fail?

View attachment 258090

what is counted as insolubles?

have a look inside the filter, it likely is holding a lot of carbon

 

[ltslimjim]

Without opening the filter, it’s hard to say conclusively, but I would steer toward there being filter failure than mass cleanup all at once. The filter is a known variable change after the last report on the same OCI.

JMO

@Tusflyer

 

[Sean1112]

Got a car that requires a 229.5 5w40 euro oil. I've used Maxlife full synthetic 5w30 for 2 and a half years. Ran well, engine didn't blow up and now has almost 240K. R&P 5w30 would be perfectly fine though I wish we could get the R&P 10W40 like they do on Australia...

 

[CEHepp]

All these posts mad at the OP for not using VW certified oil. Here, I’m not using LL-01.

 

[RobertISaar]

I'll have some more data points to add into this(Audi 4.0TT rather than 3.0T) in a few months, I need two more Leichtlauf analyses done first to be 100% on baseline wear. Miles add somewhat fast for me though.

I don't know if funky rings are going to be a factor for this engine, but I have a pretty soft usage of it, a -30 run at relatively short interval, even without the magical 502/505 stamp, I don't anticipate running into issues.

Change of plans on my side, the pump's oil pressure control valve solenoid failed, forcing the pump into the high pressure mode at all times, no check engine light or significantly altered engine operation that I've noticed, only knew about it due to me running a scan on the ECM. Looks like failure occurred sometime during or maybe prior to my first Leichtlauf fill.

So, now my test sequence has been modified. The current fill is liqui moly Leichtlauf 5w-40, with 600ml of ceratec added to it. When this interval is finished, it will be straight Leichtlauf, along with a new pressure control solenoid, which should make for a 4th sampled oil system configuration (high pressure Leichtlauf, high pressure Leichtlauf+ MoS2, high pressure Leichtlauf+ ceratec, variable pressure Leichtlauf), then I'll get the R&P into the engine for an interval for a 5th configuration and maybe a reduction in oil loss.

Looks like 2100-2600 miles per liter so far, which really isn't bad but I'd like to be ahead of the curve.

 

[bryanviper]

So I'm thinking of trying valvoline restore and protect in my 2016 Golf R with 122,000kms Its burning a good amount of oil, every week'ish its burning around a quarter on the dipstick. If I got racing on a Sat it tends to burn more form what I can remember last summer.

Anyways I just did an oil change with Motul Power and considering buying valvoline restore and protect to top up with which will eventually replace it since I burn so much. Other then Motul protecting better does anybody see any issues with what I'm thinking of doing?

Thanks

 

[RobertISaar]

I'll have an oil analysis ready in a few months on my 4.0T, I've got 3 liqui moly leichtlauf 5w40 as reference, your 2.0T making 300+ is more stressed than my 4.0T making 450, if I see concerning results, I'll bring it back up, but so far everything has been smooth.

 

[bryanviper]

I'll have an oil analysis ready in a few months on my 4.0T, I've got 3 liqui moly leichtlauf 5w40 as reference, your 2.0T making 300+ is more stressed than my 4.0T making 450, if I see concerning results, I'll bring it back up, but so far everything has been smooth.

Great,
I'm at about 400hp due to Stage 2

But i'm thinking topping up with R&P should not really be an issue mixing it and in 2 months or something it will probably be all R&P

 

[RobertISaar]

There's my contribution for r&p in a 4.0T. all runs has their length determined by how long it took until the low oil level light to appear, no makeup oil. All runs done with the oil pressure regulating valve dead, so stuck at high pressure(60psi, I believe) during all of this as well.



The sample at 175,571 is 10 quarts(9.5 liters) r&p 5w30.

The sample at 171,408 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, with 600ml of ceratec added.

The sample at 166,793 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, with 600ml of mos2 added.

The sample at 162,261 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, no additive.



For being the "wrong oil", it sure is testing really well.

 

[KnappAttak]

There's my contribution for r&p in a 4.0T. all runs has their length determined by how long it took until the low oil level light to appear, no makeup oil. All runs done with the oil pressure regulating valve dead, so stuck at high pressure(60psi, I believe) during all of this as well.



The sample at 175,571 is 10 quarts(9.5 liters) r&p 5w30.

The sample at 171,408 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, with 600ml of ceratec added.

The sample at 166,793 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, with 600ml of mos2 added.

The sample at 162,261 is 9 liters liqui moly leichtlauf 5w-40, no additive.



For being the "wrong oil", it sure is testing really well.

Excellent report!!! How much better the wear metals are with the Valvoline Restore and Protect!

I imagine you'll continue to use it as well? Curious to see if continued runs will help with the oil consumption also. I'm running the Valvoline Restore and Protect in all 3 of my vehicles now including my 2013 Audi A6 that has not consumed any oil ever. Figured because it works so well in our Q7 with low tension ring pack, and my 2014 Chevy 5.3 truck, it sure cant hurt to run it in the A6 as well. All have picked up fuel mileage and run smoother at idle to boot. I've got 10,000 miles using Valvoline Restore and Protect on the Q7. Some guys on AudiWorlds Q7 forum have run it for over 25,000 total miles now and not consuming any more oil, or at the very least WAY less oil than previously. Most are doing 5000 mile oil changes with it, myself included.

You should think about doing a couple fuel tanks with adding "Yamalube Ring-Free plus" in it. Heavy dose of say 24-32 oz per tank helps free up the rings and clean the combustion chambers really well. Run it in sport mode and use heavy throttle when doing it. Many claim doing this along with the Valvoline Restore and Protect cures the oil consumption on the 3.0t CREC engine. I did the Berrymans Piston soak myself. I wished I'd have done the Ring Free first to clean the chambers and piston tops. I had mega carbon buildup which I had to deal with during the piston soak, preventing the crank from turning over with all the loose carbon finding its way to the low side of the piston and having an interference problem when trying to turn the crank.

 

[RobertISaar]

I'm thoroughly shocked by how low wear metal is, in what is a lower viscosity oil than I had been running(that leichtlauf is certified vw502/505 when r&p is not), with what looks to be a weaker additive package. Fuel economy and idle seem unaffected, or if it's there, it's too minor for me to be certain.

Oil consumption thus far is comparable, so I'm not seeing any benefit there, it may happen later or not at all. Or it may be completely unrelated to the rings. I don't have any idea if the PCV was replaced on this 4.0t, I replaced the one on my 5.2 S8 roughly every 15k miles because of failures that would draw down the crankcase to a ton of vacuum. The 4.0T hasn't done that to me yet, but I know it's a carried over weak point and expect it to happen at some point.

This current fill is r&p, and until I find a reason to change, future fills will be indefinitely as well. Positive voodoo is occuring and I don't feel like messing it up. I occasionally put tcw3 oil into the fuel, if it's truly beneficial, I don't know. But I've already paid for it, and it doesn't seem to cause anything bad to happen either, so I use roughly 1oz per 4-5 gallons of 93.

At some point, if I have to pull the driver's side engine mount / ac compressor, I'll be able to get the oil pressure valve changed. But that's not a small job and it may be for such a small/possibly negative change, I'm not sure I want to do it, but I'm curious to know if the 4.0T benefits from running in the high pressure mode vs selective low pressure. I'm sure some of the better tunes can run high pressure as a default if having that valve functional results in worse wear metals, but I have a while before I get to that point.

 

[chris719]

Let’s also remember that lower UOA metals are not necessarily guarantees of lower wear. Saw plenty of BMW S65 engines with a series of good UOAs with low metals grenade due to rod bearings. Also keep in mind the lab, the seasonal driving conditions, and many other potential sources of error.

Now, that said, I feel like Leichtlauf is mediocre and other than this R&P cleaning feature you could do better than both.

It’s quite possible though that if your primary source of wear metals is the valvetrain that R&P is actually better than LM. I wonder how the bearings fare though.

 

[RobertISaar]

There are a lot of 5w30 oils that meet vw502/505. And for the newer(more Porsche than Audi) 4.0T, vw504/507, which are almost all 0w and 5w30.

I wouldn't expect a 30 being too thin and risking hammering out the bearings, all else being equal. The oil during the drain looked about the same as my 5w40 leichtlauf runs, no scary increase of glitter, filter looked as expected too.

Cutting aluminum to somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of what it was with leichtlauf and iron in half, with no change to the already non-existent lead, tin and 1ppm copper, I would be shocked if there's accelerated bearing wear compared to what I was running, going by the numbers it looks like both the soft and hard metals are benefitting. The EA824 bearings are lead-free, but beyond that I don't see any solid info from Audi as to their construction. The EA825 has that available, but that's the more P than A 4.0T.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but I see no reason not to use this dirt cheap oil.

 

[kschachn]

There are a lot of 5w30 oils that meet vw502/505. And for the newer(more Porsche than Audi) 4.0T, vw504/507, which are almost all 0w and 5w30.

I wouldn't expect a 30 being too thin and risking hammering out the bearings, all else being equal. The oil during the drain looked about the same as my 5w40 leichtlauf runs, no scary increase of glitter, filter looked as expected too.

Cutting aluminum to somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 of what it was with leichtlauf and iron in half, with no change to the already non-existent lead, tin and 1ppm copper, I would be shocked if there's accelerated bearing wear compared to what I was running, going by the numbers it looks like both the soft and hard metals are benefitting. The EA824 bearings are lead-free, but beyond that I don't see any solid info from Audi as to their construction. The EA825 has that available, but that's the more P than A 4.0T.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but I see no reason not to use this dirt cheap oil.

Grade is irrelevant in light of the required HT/HS for the approval. You’re running an oil that has sufficient HT/HS to prevent excessive wear that would appear in a cheap spectrographic analysis, so from that standpoint it’s not surprising.

Your engine is operating properly from this perspective. That’s what contributes to the UOA, not the oil. No fully formulated oil is going to have a markedly different effect on wear and certainly not one that would give a statistically relevant reading on that analysis. Comparative wear testing between oils is a complicated and expensive test, not an uncontrolled $35 spectrographic analysis.

 

[John Paul]

I wanted to use the Valvoline Restore and Protect in my Q7 to stop the oil burning issue but shied away from it because of the lack of VW502/504 spec. Interestingly while running mobil 1 5w-40 VW502 in my car the dealer advised ne that my car needed 0w30 VW504 (2018 3.0 TFSI). Of course offered me an overpriced oil change which I refused. Decided to run the HPL euro 0w30 since people seem to have good results de-carboning with it. It’s been great so far, slowed my burn to almost NIL. Just got my lab results back after a little over 4k miles. Interesting comparison to the Valvoline Restore and Protect for sure.

View attachment 247563

I'm curious about if anyone has actually compared Valvoline restore and protect 5W30 to HPL euro 0w30 for their Audi vehicles. I own a 2017 Q7 3.0 tfsi and it consumes oil at least a quart every 1,000 to 1,500 km. I had a carbon cleaning done by the dealer at 116,000 km (new spark plugs) as I was experiencing piston misfires and rough idling, and now looking at these oils to to clean up any built up carbon since now that I am at 146,000 km. I looked at doing a B12 flush but I'm a bit hesitant as a DIY, but willing, but would rather avoid if using these oils will do the trick..

The HPL meets Audi spec for oil, just not sure how it compares to the Valvoline given the success people have had with it. For context, as I know some of you will look at the viscosity, I live in a suburb of Toronto, so climate is hot for a couple of months and then moderates until winter we will get a couple of months off New York type.

 

[KnappAttak]

I'm curious about if anyone has actually compared Valvoline restore and protect 5W30 to HPL euro 0w30 for their Audi vehicles. I own a 2017 Q7 3.0 tfsi and it consumes oil at least a quart every 1,000 to 1,500 km. I had a carbon cleaning done by the dealer at 116,000 km (new spark plugs) as I was experiencing piston misfires and rough idling, and now looking at these oils to to clean up any built up carbon since now that I am at 146,000 km. I looked at doing a B12 flush but I'm a bit hesitant as a DIY, but willing, but would rather avoid if using these oils will do the trick..

The HPL meets Audi spec for oil, just not sure how it compares to the Valvoline given the success people have had with it. For context, as I know some of you will look at the viscosity, I live in a suburb of Toronto, so climate is hot for a couple of months and then moderates until winter we will get a couple of months off New York type.

If its that bad you will need to do something real quick before you burn a valve. If not doing a Berrymans B12 piston soak, I'd recommend a couple heavy 24 or 32 oz cans or doses of the Yamalube Ring Free Plus in a couple of tanks of fuel, and run it in sport mode with lots of heavy throttle pretty much beating on the engine, along with the Valvoline Restore and Protect oil. You can use HPL as a few are doing on the Q7, but it seems the wear metals are vey similar. Specs be dammed. Euro oils are what caused this problem in the first place you know. You really have no time to waste on this problem before it eventually burns a valve with loose piece of stuck carbon hanging an exhaust valve open. I happens all the time when they get up in mileage.

You'll find lots of information in the AudiWorld Q7 forum. https://www.audiworld.com/forums/q7-mkii-discussion-211/oil-consumption-remedies-3081360/