2012 SRT-8 (392 Hemi), 5700 miles, PU 0w40, 2ndOCI

[UNC017]

This is the second oil change interval on my SRT-8. All I can do is shake my head and grin at one particular Blackstone comment, I'll leave it to you guys to guess which one:



Corresponding VOA (taken from the same bottle at the time of fill) is here:



And the oil filter pictures are here:

 

[OVERKILL]

Calcium went UP from the VOA.... that's interesting..........

 

[UNC017]

Several values went up, including the viscosities. I don't know whetehr to attribute that to the limits of the test precision, leftovers from whatever oil was in previously (Carmax changed the oil and removed the PU factory fill, but I didn't leave whatever they used in long), or if the oil has lost some of its volatile components resulting in a slight volume decrease, thereby increasing the visc. and also concentrating some of the additives. Seems like it would take a volume loss more noticeable on the dipstick to do that, though. This engine does run the oil on the warm side- 220-230F ALL the time, though I've never seen a number higher than 235F ever.

 

[Barkleymut]

Metals are a little higher? I think they would be lower since it was a short oci, but understandable sincfe the engine is breaki8ng in.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Metals are a little higher? I think they would be lower since it was a short oci, but understandable sincfe the engine is breaki8ng in.


That was a VOA compared to a used oil analysis.

 

[901Memphis]

Yes very high metals. Are you going to continue to UOA to confirm they trend down?

 

[CATERHAM]

Thanks for posting this.

You mentioned the viscosity increased but I don't see that?
KV100 of the used oil analysis was 11.25cSt vs 12.26cSt for the VOA representing an 8% KV loss; pretty modest.
Of course the VOA is 11% off the PDS spec' of 13.7cSt which may not concern me if I new the KV40 spec'.

I'm sure the Fe count will continue to fall during the next OCI.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Pretty much in line with my numbers in the 6.1 except the iron which was never that high.

Expect the copper to taper off slowly. Iron probably will too.

These engines are notably durable. You need to get that girl to the track!

 

[UNC017]

Yes, I'll probably do another UOA or two and watch the trends, just for grins. And yes, Caterham, I read my own VOA/UOA backwards... duh. The viscosity dropped, but not a ton. Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 is still an enigma to me... what's supposed to be so good about it if it doesn't use GTL stock and shears? Current fill is Mobil 1 0w40 which will (somewhat) interrupt any wear trending, but I'd rather compare the two oils in terms of viscosity stability and TBN retention at the moment. I'm finding nothing to really impress me with Pennzoil Ultra 0w40, much as I want to embrace it as the "designed for the SRT" oil. Mobil 1 0w40 has a great rep, is more readily available, and is cheaper. Am I missing something here???

I have to snicker at the comments about "they don't finish-polish brass parts." Well, AFAIK, there are ZERO copper-containing wear points in the 392 anyway, unless its something really tiny in the variable cam timing system. I doubt that it even has copper-backed bearings, and even if it DID, to get wear in the copper the overlying material would be completely gone and tin/lead would (well SHOULD- that BMW post still comes to mind) be through the roof. You can't look at a "wear" metal and conclude that its from wear without knowing something about the engine design. If it has aluminum bearings, tin or copper in the UOA isn't going to be from bearing wear.

The copper is no doubt from the factory oil cooler, and the iron is from normal break-in. Copper is notorious for leaching out of lines and coolers in new engines. Remember... not even 9000 miles on the ENGINE when this sample was taken and over half of that mileage was on this single fill of oil.

And yes... I need to get her to the track... The quicker to burn up those factory Goodyear tires so I can get something better

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The viscosity dropped, but not a ton. Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 is still an enigma to me... what's supposed to be so good about it if it doesn't use GTL stock and shears? Current fill is Mobil 1 0w40 which will (somewhat) interrupt any wear trending, but I'd rather compare the two oils in terms of viscosity stability and TBN retention at the moment. I'm finding nothing to really impress me with Pennzoil Ultra 0w40, much as I want to embrace it as the "designed for the SRT" oil. Mobil 1 0w40 has a great rep, is more readily available, and is cheaper. Am I missing something here???

No you're not missing anything here.
The 8% KV loss is modest and certainly no worse than Mobil 1 0W-40 but Pennzoil Ultra 0W-40 is a lighter oil than Mobil 1. That's not good or bad although the 11% variance from the VOA implies at the very least a quality control issue which is not uncommon with low volume heavier oil grades; Mobil doesn't have this problem.

I'm glad you ran VOA/used oil analysis of this oil as I'm always looking for something at least on par with Mobil 1 0W-40 but there aren't any, not for the price. Even in high priced non API boutique oils I only know of two, Red Line 0W-40 and Red LineI 0W-30, that I would prefer but only somewhat prefer.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yes... I need to get her to the track... The quicker to burn up those factory Goodyear tires so I can get something better

That would be new Pilot Super Sports ONLY, please.... you'll not regret the choice!

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
although the 11% variance from the VOA implies at the very least a quality control issue which is not uncommon with low volume heavier oil grades; Mobil doesn't have this problem.

I'm glad you ran VOA/used oil analysis of this oil as I'm always looking for something at least on par with Mobil 1 0W-40 but there aren't any, not for the price. Even in high priced non API boutique oils I only know of two, Red Line 0W-40 and Red LineI 0W-30, that I would prefer but only somewhat prefer.


Viscosity variation among the other 6 bottles that it took to fill the sump...possible. OR the maybe variability of Blackstone's testing?

And if Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 were GTL based like the rest of the line, would you feel differently about it?

 

[CATERHAM]

440Magnum I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the 0W-40 is reformulated with GTL base oils and potentially it could be a real winner, we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't think the low virgin KV100 value is due to Blackstone testing. BlackStone has commented on the matter with heavier oil grades coming in lighter than their published PDS spec's quite frequently. Many are low including Sustina 0w50, Motul 300V 0W-40, and Castrol 0W-40. But Mobil and RL are two companies that are consistently right on the money.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yes... I need to get her to the track... The quicker to burn up those factory Goodyear tires so I can get something better

That would be new Pilot Super Sports ONLY, please.... you'll not regret the choice!


A big +1 on that

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
And yes... I need to get her to the track... The quicker to burn up those factory Goodyear tires so I can get something better

That would be new Pilot Super Sports ONLY, please.... you'll not regret the choice!


A big +1 on that

And a big -2K$ on the wallet. But it would be stupid to arbitrarily cheap out on the tires with this kind of car.

Another Challenger owner in town and I were talking tires a while back and how much we dislike the OEM Goodyears (even though they are the best Goodyears I've ever owned- faint praise to be sure). He went with the BFG G-force Sport Comp-2 (what a mouthful..). He's been really really happy with them, so they're on my short list and come in at about 1/2 to 2/3 the price of the Michelins (also on the short list). I've got a while yet.... his original tires made it to 18k miles, and I'm just over 9k. We both drive hard... another guy is at over 20k with his original Eagles and still has around half the usable tread remaining in them. How can you NOT use your right foot more than he is???? ;-)

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
440Magnum I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the 0W-40 is reformulated with GTL base oils and potentially it could be a real winner, we'll just have to wait and see.


As a side-note, I've been meaning to ask how you can tell for sure that its not GTL or that the lighter oils are GTL?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
440Magnum I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the 0W-40 is reformulated with GTL base oils and potentially it could be a real winner, we'll just have to wait and see.


As a side-note, I've been meaning to ask how you can tell for sure that its not GTL or that the lighter oils are GTL?



NOACK.

 

[CATERHAM]

Exactly, it will be a lower NOACK value than what the current PU SN 0W-40 has.
So to be considered even potentially on par with M1, NOACK should be no higher than 9% and have similar viscometrics.

 

[UNC017]

Quote:

NOACK.


That's what I' would have assumed, but I figured it was more in the category of a very strong hint more than a conclusive indication. ;-)

 

[CATERHAM]

You're right it's a very strong hint.

The situation is much the same with Amsoil in determining which of their oils are PAO or GP III based. If the NOACK % is particularly low, it leaves little room for doubt that the oil must be largely PAO based.