2012 Honda Civic R18 - Mobile1 0W-20

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Also my engine takes quite a while to warm up, something other R18 owners have noted, which may cause rich running.


Mine takes forever on cold winter mornings.
Somedays driving at 50mph it would still take almost 10 minutes to warm up (extreme case) but it is definitely a tiny mill that does take a while to get warm. Increasing fuel in the oil.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Mine takes forever on cold winter mornings.
Somedays driving at 50mph it would still take almost 10 minutes to warm up (extreme case) but it is definitely a tiny mill that does take a while to get warm. Increasing fuel in the oil.


Yes, I've had people here tell me to check the thermostat, but judging by the posts at 8thCivic.com, the behavior is normal. If you're idling at a stoplight on a cold day with the heat on you can watch the temp gauge drop a couple of notches. I've even put a "winter front" on my car which blocks the entire lower grill and about 2/3 of the upper grill, I also have the under-tray from the Civic Hybrid on the car. In true BITOG overkill fashion I've also got three heaters on the car, the OEM block heater and two small patch heaters, one for the oil pan, one for the transmission. When plugged in the Civic heats up about as fast as my WRX does un-aided on a cold day.

I'm not so sure the small engine has anything to do with being cold-blooded, my 1995 Civic with the 1.5l was the fastest-warming car I've ever owned. That thing would put out heat that would burn your leg 5 minutes after cold-start. The Focus rental I had in Banff last year was the same way, heated up amazingly fast.

 

[DiggerCivic]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Interesting that your Al accumulation rate went up with the second OCI, 30ppm in 5,000 mi vs 27 ppm in 7,600 mi. My 2011 Civic did the same thing. My first change was the new Honda "Ultimate" API SN synthetic oil, and it held up pretty well, I then did two fills on the Idemitsu SM formula with high moly. Idemitsu was Honda's supplier until 2011, but I got the oil from Subaru. The Idemitsu oil did not do particularly well in my engine. I'll be interested to see how the new Idemitsu made Mazda formulation does in an R18.

Your Silicon levels are high, just like mine were with the factory air filter. I did some comparisons with aftermarket filter elements and came to the conclusion that the OEM filter element perimeter seals were to blame. I swapped it for a Napa Select (formerly Napa Silver) filter, and my Si accumulation rate dropped dramatically. I haven't made time to write up my measurements yet, but I looked at a Fram, Purolator, Napa Gold (WIX) and Napa Select (also WIX?) and came to the conclusion the Napa Select had the best seals. The filter element itself looked better on the OEM filter and the Napa Gold, but the Select had the best seals. Consider swapping out the filter early if the silicon continues to read high in your next sample. Do a search on my username for my UOAs, the latest one has commentary about Silicon and Aluminum levels.

I've got M1 0w20 in my car now, and I do mostly longer trips in an extra-urban environment with it. My trips are a bit shorter than yours, but our usage is broadly similar (few short trips). We'll see how mine comes back in a few months. Hopefully it shows less shear and fuel than yours.

To those who assume all Hondas are easy on oil, I think the J-series V6 and the R-series 4-cyl are exceptions to the rule. I've seen several R-series UOAs with pretty high fuel. I suspect the "semi-Atkinson" VTEC economy mode is to blame. Also my engine takes quite a while to warm up, something other R18 owners have noted, which may cause rich running.


Interesting, I'll check into this. Thanks for info

 

[DiggerCivic]

Originally Posted By: walk23
The FF looks like a better fit than the M1 in this engine. More Moly til after break in ?


I agree, right now the R18 is filled with the Mazda w/moly 0W-20

 

[Chris]

Insolubles seems high at only 5k. What oil filter were you using?

Forgot to ask, is this SM or SN M1?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: DiggerCivic
Following the M1 oil change, the R18 currently has this in the engine

I would be interested in seeing a UOA on this oil when it's time.
It's a high VI oil second only to Sustina so if you do have a UOA done, request a KV40 test as well.

 

[mr_diy]

My 2006 Civic never takes long to warm up, even in the winter. I believe all cars need to warm quickly for the emissions. I will check but I think it is up to temp in maybe 2 miles. Though my UOA's don't show unusual lost of viscosity.

 

[mr_diy]

Originally Posted By: mr_diy
My 2006 Civic never takes long to warm up, even in the winter. I believe all cars need to warm quickly for the emissions. I will check but I think it is up to temp in maybe 2 miles. Though my UOA's don't show unusual lost of viscosity.


Here is what I found this morning. Civic not driven for prior 15 hours, outside temp 74, city driving 25-40 mph, two short stops a traffic lights, first half mile temp stayed at 1 segment, at 1 mile 4 segments, at 2 miles 8 segments, at 2.5 miles and 5 minutes 9 segments which is normal temp reading.
I believe this is about the same at winter temps down to 30F.

 

[gpshumway]

I guess "fast" warmup is relative. Your experience is not incongruous with mine, but at 74*F the behavior is likely not obvious. It also heavily dependent on engine load and speed, the early parts of my drive are at moderate speeds with little acceleration, so lots of airflow but little load. If your early drive consists of a couple of heavy accelerations, say from 0-40 from a stop light in traffic, that can easily mask the problem.

I measure it by the number of segments lit by the time I have to accelerate onto the 65 mph highway rather than strict time and distance. Prior to that acceleration, my drive consists of three segments: 1/2 mi through my neighborhood at ~25 mph in 3rd gear, 1/2 mi on an intermediate road at ~40 mph in 5th gear, and 1 mi on a rural highway at ~50 mph in 5th gear. None of these roads is heavily trafficked, so acceleration is moderate. Total time is about 5 minutes. It's very rare that the engine is not at full operating temp (9 segments) by the time I'm up to 65 MPH on the highway, but the number of segments lit by that final hard acceleration varies quite a bit. On a 75* spring day the engine will be warmed up before entering the highway, on a 30* winter day where I forgot to plug it in, it will light 4 segments during that final acceleration, and on a -10*F day it will take until accelerating away from the next stop light on that highway for the temp to stabilize.

With my WRX, it's always up to temp by the time I reach the same highway regardless of temp or block heater. If I plug the WRX in on a 50*F day it will stabilize by the end of the second segment of my trip. My old 1995 Civic was even better, and it didn't even have a block heater.

It's also certainly possible that Honda changed something in the fuel mapping between 2006 and 2011. Like I said, do a search over at 8thcivic.com, the issue is common, too common to be an isolated faulty thermostat or two, IMHO.

 

[mr_diy]

Likewise mine are modest acceleration, also about 1/2 mile thru subdivision, rolling stops, onto a 40 mph road with one stop light and one turn before up to temp. Will have to wait until winter to get the cold weather comparison, though like I said before this Civic never seemed longer to warm up than other vehicles.

 

[OriginHacker21]

Lucky... the 2013 Civic doesn't even have a temp gauge... Just a blue C when I start up that disappears usually before I get down the first block.