Speaking of my newly purchased 2012 Accord with 33K miles...I have noticed a slight grind on start up (sounds like the VTEC actuator issue) and a constant whine that is RPM following (read up and it seems like the oil pumps on these can whine). Any comments on either of these issues? Is this whine normal from this generation of Honda 2.4's (2008-2012). Please any owners chime in!
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2012 Honda Accord VTEC actuator / oil pump....
- Thread starter gregk24
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Honda stopped fixing the actuator grind problem because they could never fix it. Supposedly Honda engineers are working on a real solution.
Mine only does it below freezing. Yours sounds advanced. You can prevent it from happening. The problem is complex and the root cause is hypothetical, but I've found that if I roll the key to the on position and wait 3 seconds, and then crank it over for a half second (bump start) without it actually starting, and then start your car, you'll get no grinding. It's worked for me 100% since I discovered this solution.
I'm guessing that the actuator is bleeding down, so bump start it is priming it before you actually start it. Supposedly, turning ignition to on before bump starting, can align the solenoid correctly as well.
Mine only does it below freezing. Yours sounds advanced. You can prevent it from happening. The problem is complex and the root cause is hypothetical, but I've found that if I roll the key to the on position and wait 3 seconds, and then crank it over for a half second (bump start) without it actually starting, and then start your car, you'll get no grinding. It's worked for me 100% since I discovered this solution.
I'm guessing that the actuator is bleeding down, so bump start it is priming it before you actually start it. Supposedly, turning ignition to on before bump starting, can align the solenoid correctly as well.
It's really heartening to read the posts on this. Why? My '13 Corolla with the vvti 1.8l and just 10k miles makes the "bleed down rattle" on startup . Exactly 1 second. The TSB has done nothing for most folks and it appears that the smart folks have realized that this just is the way it is. Other do the bump start to lock the vvti pin in place, I apparently don't have "the touch" when it comes to that method. I cringe when I started it up and hear that sound which is the purest definition of "rattle" for one second. Like coconuts shell halves being pounded quickly on a table.
Some say the pin may break eventually due to the rattle. So I tell you what... It goes against my every cell ...and I'll probably tear up when it happens....but if I ever hear anything real "going bad" in my engine at highway speed , I'm going to hit that gas pedal and blast that motherf%€¥#r into oblivion. I mean absolutely blast it into oblivion. I'm not fooling around with a half damaged engine for $4k of repairs for 20,000 additional miles into it blows yet again. It's gonna be grand finale the first time and I'll buy a 2003 Corolla with 200k on it with the $4k I get for the beautifully maintained shell of my '13 Corolla, if it's out of warranty.
Some say the pin may break eventually due to the rattle. So I tell you what... It goes against my every cell ...and I'll probably tear up when it happens....but if I ever hear anything real "going bad" in my engine at highway speed , I'm going to hit that gas pedal and blast that motherf%€¥#r into oblivion. I mean absolutely blast it into oblivion. I'm not fooling around with a half damaged engine for $4k of repairs for 20,000 additional miles into it blows yet again. It's gonna be grand finale the first time and I'll buy a 2003 Corolla with 200k on it with the $4k I get for the beautifully maintained shell of my '13 Corolla, if it's out of warranty.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Honda stopped fixing the actuator grind problem because they could never fix it. Supposedly Honda engineers are working on a real solution.
Mine only does it below freezing. Yours sounds advanced. You can prevent it from happening. The problem is complex and the root cause is hypothetical, but I've found that if I roll the key to the on position and wait 3 seconds, and then crank it over for a half second (bump start) without it actually starting, and then start your car, you'll get no grinding. It's worked for me 100% since I discovered this solution.
I'm guessing that the actuator is bleeding down, so bump start it is priming it before you actually start it. Supposedly, turning ignition to on before bump starting, can align the solenoid correctly as well.
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
Honda stopped fixing the actuator grind problem because they could never fix it. Supposedly Honda engineers are working on a real solution.
Mine only does it below freezing. Yours sounds advanced. You can prevent it from happening. The problem is complex and the root cause is hypothetical, but I've found that if I roll the key to the on position and wait 3 seconds, and then crank it over for a half second (bump start) without it actually starting, and then start your car, you'll get no grinding. It's worked for me 100% since I discovered this solution.
I'm guessing that the actuator is bleeding down, so bump start it is priming it before you actually start it. Supposedly, turning ignition to on before bump starting, can align the solenoid correctly as well.
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
No, it's not out of warranty. I currently have a 2010 Accord with 65k miles on it and extra 7 years/120k miles comprehensive Honda Care warranty. So, I'm covered by both the Honda drive train warranty and the Honda Care extended warranty.
I've had the actuator fixed TWICE under a Honda TSB...free of charge both times. Neither time did the "fix" work for longer than a few weeks. My car only makes the start-up grind/rattle when it's below freezing.
"bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter...." Sure, it's not doing the starter any favors, but I can put an OEM Honda starter in it for a few hundred bucks and an hour of my time. Nothing compared to a new engine. Besides, OEM Honda starters are built like TANKS. Their longevity is insane. Despite "bump starting" it in the winter, I bet I still get 400k miles out of my starter.
I'm not sure about the whine. I don't think so. At least I've never noticed it.
But I'm willing to sacrifice my starter for my engine. Seems logical to me. It may not even effect the starter life.
I've only read one guy on driveaccord.net that claims his engine locked up from this pin finally failing. I just hate the noise. It can't be good. So, I do what I can do stop it from happening. I've researched this problems for maybe 40-50 hours off and on for 3 years. This is the solution I've come up with until Honda finds a real fix.
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
No, it's not out of warranty. I currently have a 2010 Accord with 65k miles on it and extra 7 years/120k miles comprehensive Honda Care warranty. So, I'm covered by both the Honda drive train warranty and the Honda Care extended warranty.
I've had the actuator fixed TWICE under a Honda TSB...free of charge both times. Neither time did the "fix" work for longer than a few weeks. My car only makes the start-up grind/rattle when it's below freezing.
"bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter...." Sure, it's not doing the starter any favors, but I can put an OEM Honda starter in it for a few hundred bucks and an hour of my time. Nothing compared to a new engine. Besides, OEM Honda starters are built like TANKS. Their longevity is insane. Despite "bump starting" it in the winter, I bet I still get 400k miles out of my starter.
I'm not sure about the whine. I don't think so. At least I've never noticed it.
But I'm willing to sacrifice my starter for my engine. Seems logical to me. It may not even effect the starter life.
I've only read one guy on driveaccord.net that claims his engine locked up from this pin finally failing. I just hate the noise. It can't be good. So, I do what I can do stop it from happening. I've researched this problems for maybe 40-50 hours off and on for 3 years. This is the solution I've come up with until Honda finds a real fix.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
No, it's not out of warranty. I currently have a 2010 Accord with 65k miles on it and extra 7 years/120k miles comprehensive Honda Care warranty. So, I'm covered by both the Honda drive train warranty and the Honda Care extended warranty.
I've had the actuator fixed TWICE under a Honda TSB...free of charge both times. Neither time did the "fix" work for longer than a few weeks. My car only makes the start-up grind/rattle when it's below freezing.
"bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter...." Sure, it's not doing the starter any favors, but I can put an OEM Honda starter in it for a few hundred bucks and an hour of my time. Nothing compared to a new engine. Besides, OEM Honda starters are built like TANKS. Their longevity is insane. Despite "bump starting" it in the winter, I bet I still get 400k miles out of my starter.
I'm not sure about the whine. I don't think so. At least I've never noticed it.
But I'm willing to sacrifice my starter for my engine. Seems logical to me. It may not even effect the starter life.
I've only read one guy on driveaccord.net that claims his engine locked up from this pin finally failing. I just hate the noise. It can't be good. So, I do what I can do stop it from happening. I've researched this problems for maybe 40-50 hours off and on for 3 years. This is the solution I've come up with until Honda finds a real fix.
Wow, that stinks. Did they make you leave the car at the dealer overnight so they could hear the noise themselves? I ask because I need this car for transportation and I have only heard the noise a couple times on start up. I hope the dealer doesn't feed me the "oh, thats normal" line.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Was yours already out of warranty? Also, bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter....
Oh, and does your engine make that whine noise also? Thats the best I can describe it, a whine. It happens at all rpms it seems, its just more noticeable at lower rpms because the sound of the engine does not drown it out.
No, it's not out of warranty. I currently have a 2010 Accord with 65k miles on it and extra 7 years/120k miles comprehensive Honda Care warranty. So, I'm covered by both the Honda drive train warranty and the Honda Care extended warranty.
I've had the actuator fixed TWICE under a Honda TSB...free of charge both times. Neither time did the "fix" work for longer than a few weeks. My car only makes the start-up grind/rattle when it's below freezing.
"bump starting it just seems like your doing more damage to the starter...." Sure, it's not doing the starter any favors, but I can put an OEM Honda starter in it for a few hundred bucks and an hour of my time. Nothing compared to a new engine. Besides, OEM Honda starters are built like TANKS. Their longevity is insane. Despite "bump starting" it in the winter, I bet I still get 400k miles out of my starter.
I'm not sure about the whine. I don't think so. At least I've never noticed it.
But I'm willing to sacrifice my starter for my engine. Seems logical to me. It may not even effect the starter life.
I've only read one guy on driveaccord.net that claims his engine locked up from this pin finally failing. I just hate the noise. It can't be good. So, I do what I can do stop it from happening. I've researched this problems for maybe 40-50 hours off and on for 3 years. This is the solution I've come up with until Honda finds a real fix.
Wow, that stinks. Did they make you leave the car at the dealer overnight so they could hear the noise themselves? I ask because I need this car for transportation and I have only heard the noise a couple times on start up. I hope the dealer doesn't feed me the "oh, thats normal" line.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Wow, that stinks. Did they make you leave the car at the dealer overnight so they could hear the noise themselves? I ask because I need this car for transportation and I have only heard the noise a couple times on start up. I hope the dealer doesn't feed me the "oh, thats normal" line.
I told the manager that the car would have to sit outside over night and upon the first start on a cold December/January morning, it would have to be observed then. If you have a tech start the car and bring it into the garage, and then you restart it to try to diagnose the noise, you'll never hear it. I recorded the noise and posted the video on youtube.
On page 2 of this thread, you'll see my youtube video. The last post (on page 3) is my solution that I've been using.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3253694/2
Wow, that stinks. Did they make you leave the car at the dealer overnight so they could hear the noise themselves? I ask because I need this car for transportation and I have only heard the noise a couple times on start up. I hope the dealer doesn't feed me the "oh, thats normal" line.
I told the manager that the car would have to sit outside over night and upon the first start on a cold December/January morning, it would have to be observed then. If you have a tech start the car and bring it into the garage, and then you restart it to try to diagnose the noise, you'll never hear it. I recorded the noise and posted the video on youtube.
On page 2 of this thread, you'll see my youtube video. The last post (on page 3) is my solution that I've been using.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3253694/2
Originally Posted By: Phishin
Someone is nervous.....
Well yeah just a bit! I didn't know this was such a common issue, also I have read of two instances where this caused engine failure because then pin broke off. I havent really seen any cases of 2012 Accords but there are plenty of 2012 CRV's (same engine I believe) and even the new Civic SI's with the 2.4. Just curious if anyone has make it into the 6 digits without any issues.
Someone is nervous.....
Well yeah just a bit! I didn't know this was such a common issue, also I have read of two instances where this caused engine failure because then pin broke off. I havent really seen any cases of 2012 Accords but there are plenty of 2012 CRV's (same engine I believe) and even the new Civic SI's with the 2.4. Just curious if anyone has make it into the 6 digits without any issues.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Speaking of my newly purchased 2012 Accord with 33K miles...I have noticed a slight grind on start up (sounds like the VTEC actuator issue) and a constant whine that is RPM following (read up and it seems like the oil pumps on these can whine). Any comments on either of these issues? Is this whine normal from this generation of Honda 2.4's (2008-2012). Please any owners chime in!
My 2008 CR-V never had the grind, but it always had a "sing" whine to the engine that was engine speed related. I never could figure it out. The dealer said it was "normal". Indeed, it does seem that most K-series engines have this certain sing to them -- I can hear Accords and the like in parking lots with this same song. It sounds like a worn drive belt or tensioner, but I removed my drive belt once and started and ran the engine for 10 seconds, and it certainly was not the drive belt or tensioner -- the sound was there just as strong as before. I gave up on it and decided that that's just how they sound.
Speaking of my newly purchased 2012 Accord with 33K miles...I have noticed a slight grind on start up (sounds like the VTEC actuator issue) and a constant whine that is RPM following (read up and it seems like the oil pumps on these can whine). Any comments on either of these issues? Is this whine normal from this generation of Honda 2.4's (2008-2012). Please any owners chime in!
My 2008 CR-V never had the grind, but it always had a "sing" whine to the engine that was engine speed related. I never could figure it out. The dealer said it was "normal". Indeed, it does seem that most K-series engines have this certain sing to them -- I can hear Accords and the like in parking lots with this same song. It sounds like a worn drive belt or tensioner, but I removed my drive belt once and started and ran the engine for 10 seconds, and it certainly was not the drive belt or tensioner -- the sound was there just as strong as before. I gave up on it and decided that that's just how they sound.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Speaking of my newly purchased 2012 Accord with 33K miles...I have noticed a slight grind on start up (sounds like the VTEC actuator issue) and a constant whine that is RPM following (read up and it seems like the oil pumps on these can whine). Any comments on either of these issues? Is this whine normal from this generation of Honda 2.4's (2008-2012). Please any owners chime in!
My 2008 CR-V never had the grind, but it always had a "sing" whine to the engine that was engine speed related. I never could figure it out. The dealer said it was "normal". Indeed, it does seem that most K-series engines have this certain sing to them -- I can hear Accords and the like in parking lots with this same song. It sounds like a worn drive belt or tensioner, but I removed my drive belt once and started and ran the engine for 10 seconds, and it certainly was not the drive belt or tensioner -- the sound was there just as strong as before. I gave up on it and decided that that's just how they sound.
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Speaking of my newly purchased 2012 Accord with 33K miles...I have noticed a slight grind on start up (sounds like the VTEC actuator issue) and a constant whine that is RPM following (read up and it seems like the oil pumps on these can whine). Any comments on either of these issues? Is this whine normal from this generation of Honda 2.4's (2008-2012). Please any owners chime in!
My 2008 CR-V never had the grind, but it always had a "sing" whine to the engine that was engine speed related. I never could figure it out. The dealer said it was "normal". Indeed, it does seem that most K-series engines have this certain sing to them -- I can hear Accords and the like in parking lots with this same song. It sounds like a worn drive belt or tensioner, but I removed my drive belt once and started and ran the engine for 10 seconds, and it certainly was not the drive belt or tensioner -- the sound was there just as strong as before. I gave up on it and decided that that's just how they sound.
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
The engine in my '08 CR-V was actually specific to the CR-V. It was the K24Z1, found only in 2007-2009 CR-Vs. The 7th generation Accord had both the K24A4 (2003-2005) and the K24A8 (2006-2007).
Your Accord's engine is actually closer in model number to my CR-V's engine than anything else. I had a K24Z1, you have a K24Z2 (or Z3, if you have the 190 hp version). Then CR-Vs after mine (2010-2011) have the K24Z6.
All of these engines are extremely similar, and use similar components. I believe the whine is fairly consistent across the different K24 platforms -- after I was tuned to listen for it, I could hear it on other CR-Vs, Elements, and Accords. I think the source is somewhere in the timing chain or balance shaft system, just based on the perceived source on that side of the engine and reproducability, taking the drive belt and all accessories out of the picture.
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
The engine in my '08 CR-V was actually specific to the CR-V. It was the K24Z1, found only in 2007-2009 CR-Vs. The 7th generation Accord had both the K24A4 (2003-2005) and the K24A8 (2006-2007).
Your Accord's engine is actually closer in model number to my CR-V's engine than anything else. I had a K24Z1, you have a K24Z2 (or Z3, if you have the 190 hp version). Then CR-Vs after mine (2010-2011) have the K24Z6.
All of these engines are extremely similar, and use similar components. I believe the whine is fairly consistent across the different K24 platforms -- after I was tuned to listen for it, I could hear it on other CR-Vs, Elements, and Accords. I think the source is somewhere in the timing chain or balance shaft system, just based on the perceived source on that side of the engine and reproducability, taking the drive belt and all accessories out of the picture.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
The engine in my '08 CR-V was actually specific to the CR-V. It was the K24Z1, found only in 2007-2009 CR-Vs. The 7th generation Accord had both the K24A4 (2003-2005) and the K24A8 (2006-2007).
Your Accord's engine is actually closer in model number to my CR-V's engine than anything else. I had a K24Z1, you have a K24Z2 (or Z3, if you have the 190 hp version). Then CR-Vs after mine (2010-2011) have the K24Z6.
All of these engines are extremely similar, and use similar components. I believe the whine is fairly consistent across the different K24 platforms -- after I was tuned to listen for it, I could hear it on other CR-Vs, Elements, and Accords. I think the source is somewhere in the timing chain or balance shaft system, just based on the perceived source on that side of the engine and reproducability, taking the drive belt and all accessories out of the picture.
Its the 190 HP K24z3 version. I never had the whine on my K24a8, but this new one has it...I suppose its normal? I will just keep an eye out for the grind on start up, if it presents itself I will go into the dealer. Just noticed you got rid of the V! How are you enjoying the Ridgeline?
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I think the engine in your CR-V is different than the newer K24's. I thought it had the 2.4 from the 7th Feb Accord.
The engine in my '08 CR-V was actually specific to the CR-V. It was the K24Z1, found only in 2007-2009 CR-Vs. The 7th generation Accord had both the K24A4 (2003-2005) and the K24A8 (2006-2007).
Your Accord's engine is actually closer in model number to my CR-V's engine than anything else. I had a K24Z1, you have a K24Z2 (or Z3, if you have the 190 hp version). Then CR-Vs after mine (2010-2011) have the K24Z6.
All of these engines are extremely similar, and use similar components. I believe the whine is fairly consistent across the different K24 platforms -- after I was tuned to listen for it, I could hear it on other CR-Vs, Elements, and Accords. I think the source is somewhere in the timing chain or balance shaft system, just based on the perceived source on that side of the engine and reproducability, taking the drive belt and all accessories out of the picture.
Its the 190 HP K24z3 version. I never had the whine on my K24a8, but this new one has it...I suppose its normal? I will just keep an eye out for the grind on start up, if it presents itself I will go into the dealer. Just noticed you got rid of the V! How are you enjoying the Ridgeline?
gregk24....
Please don't waste your time and generate a ton of aggravation by going to the Honda dealership.
The most current word from Corporate Honda is that dealers should NOT fix this VTC problem because they don't have a solution yet.
The only thing you can really do is call Honda NA and get a case number, write it down, and stick it in your glove box in case the engine does implode.
Please don't waste your time and generate a ton of aggravation by going to the Honda dealership.
The most current word from Corporate Honda is that dealers should NOT fix this VTC problem because they don't have a solution yet.
The only thing you can really do is call Honda NA and get a case number, write it down, and stick it in your glove box in case the engine does implode.
Originally Posted By: Phishin
gregk24....
Please don't waste your time and generate a ton of aggravation by going to the Honda dealership.
The most current word from Corporate Honda is that dealers should NOT fix this VTC problem because they don't have a solution yet.
The only thing you can really do is call Honda NA and get a case number, write it down, and stick it in your glove box in case the engine does implode.
How do we know this?
gregk24....
Please don't waste your time and generate a ton of aggravation by going to the Honda dealership.
The most current word from Corporate Honda is that dealers should NOT fix this VTC problem because they don't have a solution yet.
The only thing you can really do is call Honda NA and get a case number, write it down, and stick it in your glove box in case the engine does implode.
How do we know this?
Originally Posted By: gregk24
How do we know this?
I own a Honda with this problem.
I'm a member of several Honda forums as a result. I've had mine to the dealership twice and my experiences have been the same as others...at best, it's a temporary fix.
Many people have cited the new Honda ruling to not fix this start-up rattle until a better/appropriate solution is found. Many have again found that Honda has told many owners to sit and wait.
You can try to get it fixed all you want. This is what you'll experience: The garage can't duplicate the noise and deny fixing it. They'll want to charge you for the repair. Once you inform them of the TSB, they will pull it up and see an amendment to it, stating DO NOT REPAIR.
How do we know this?
I own a Honda with this problem.
I'm a member of several Honda forums as a result. I've had mine to the dealership twice and my experiences have been the same as others...at best, it's a temporary fix.
Many people have cited the new Honda ruling to not fix this start-up rattle until a better/appropriate solution is found. Many have again found that Honda has told many owners to sit and wait.
You can try to get it fixed all you want. This is what you'll experience: The garage can't duplicate the noise and deny fixing it. They'll want to charge you for the repair. Once you inform them of the TSB, they will pull it up and see an amendment to it, stating DO NOT REPAIR.
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