2011 Mustang 5.0

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Well considering that with only 315HP the mustang is running a 4.9 sec 0-60, I can only think that it will be faster than the much heavier camaro with 412. But my point was that maybe GM should look into making more power in a smaller package. Pushrod engines are outdated, they cannot make use of VVT, and VTEC like systems. And 4 valve per cylinder pushrod would be a mess.


My point is you don't know that the camaro will be making 412 by the time the new mustang comes out.

Overhead cams have been out a long time too.

Push rod is not worse just different.

Probably better suited for America's speed limits.

If you can cruise at 155 mph maybe OHC is better.

Maybe a bigger advantage if petrol is 5 pounds/liter.

But those two situations don't apply. One never will,the other is just a maybe.

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


No, I think he's got it exactly right.






Nope the new Mustang looks almost exactly like the POS 94 Mustang GT bulldog shape with the proverbial "updates".

The new Camaro is the classic Coke bottle or Hourglass shape.

Hourglass>>>>>>>>> Bulldog

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


No, I think he's got it exactly right.






Nope the new Mustang looks almost exactly like the POS 94 Mustang GT bulldog shape with the proverbial "updates".

The new Camaro is the classic Coke bottle or Hourglass shape.

Hourglass>>>>>>>>> Bulldog


Which of course sells and why the F-body was discontinued in the first place because it outsold the Mustang by so much...


Oh wait, that didn't happen.

 

[hardcore302]

mustangs have always been more popular, and might i add that there was no production "hiatus" because of poor sales.

the mustang was always underpowered compared to the camaro, and still beat it's [censored]. now it has about equal power and will romp on that ugly as sin camaro.

just wait until the aftermarket gets a hold of the 5.0. everyone is screwed. the mustang aftermarket is easily the biggest of any car, period. and most effective. there are 12 superchargers alone for a 2005-09.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: genynnc
Excuse me Ben, I was thinking of the 5.4. Either way though, Ford is off on the wrong track with their smaller bore designs. I hope they have fixed that with the 'new' 5.0. I guess we will see which car 'wins' in the coming months.

Regarding the vids, not really impressed with the mustang. I could take a 302 Gen I Chevy and make 650 at 8K- naturally aspirated.



Not with the stock heads you wouldn't be. The GM 302 was an EXCELLENT engine for its day, but those heads had NOTHING on the BOSS 302 heads, which, when worked, would flow well in excess of 400cfm.

Big, canted valve heads have always proven superior in making maximum power. GM should know, that's why their big blocks worked so well.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
mustangs have always been more popular, and might i add that there was no production "hiatus" because of poor sales.

the mustang was always underpowered compared to the camaro, and still beat it's [censored]. now it has about equal power and will romp on that ugly as sin camaro.

just wait until the aftermarket gets a hold of the 5.0. everyone is screwed. the mustang aftermarket is easily the biggest of any car, period. and most effective. there are 12 superchargers alone for a 2005-09.


Yes, the aftermarket for the Mustang cannot be described in any word other than epic. It is a car with its own racing league for Christ's sake. The Mustang fan-base makes the Camaro club look like an Alaskan girl-scout meeting.

For example, just browsing a few sites right now:

camaroforums.com:
Threads: 45,612, Posts: 388,801, Members: 22,645

fbodyonline.com:
Threads: 54,508, Posts: 130,510, Members: 3,051

moderncamaro.com:
Threads: 18,952, Posts: 208,938, Members: 7,040

nasty28.com
Threads: 150,346, Posts: 1,714,818, Members: 28,855



VS:

corral.net:
Threads: 843,363, Posts: 6,541,655, Members: 126,767

mustangforums.com:
Threads: 574,014, Posts: 6,712,571, Members: 129,237

even our LOCAL Toronto board is larger than f-body online:
Threads: 63,828, Posts: 821,781, Members: 4,622

 

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT


No, I think he's got it exactly right.






Nope the new Mustang looks almost exactly like the POS 94 Mustang GT bulldog shape with the proverbial "updates".

The new Camaro is the classic Coke bottle or Hourglass shape.

Hourglass>>>>>>>>> Bulldog


Which of course sells and why the F-body was discontinued in the first place because it outsold the Mustang by so much...


Oh wait, that didn't happen.



Popularity does not equal beauty.

Camry,Accord,Mustang sells.

A confederacy of dunces does not outwit one well reasoned man.

 

[cousincletus]

^^^ Who really cares about VVT in a big engine. It would way retro cooler to have a rough idle with a decent cam.
BTW I like the Chellenger the best. Camaro has no headroom and the Mustang is overall too small inside for me. The Challenger is a little bigger.

 

[MrHorspwer]

For all you VVT lovers, you can do a true independent VVT system on a pushrod motor:

http://www.mechadyne-int.com/vva-products/concentric-camshafts

It's not simple and it's not cheap, but it's been done and is currently in use on the 8.4L Dodge Viper.

Mustang... does it still have a solid axle in the rear? Until it doesn't, Mustang fanboys have nothing to say about the "archaic" pushrod engine in the Camaro.

This is where the fanboys come in and say, "But it's better for drag racing!" and start regurgitating Ford marketing [censored] about why the solid axle was retained and how the geometry is so refined.

 

[buster]

Mustang is the better choice IMO. It's a nicer looking car, and performs very well.

 

[Ed_T]

The originals coupled small size, light weight, and high output engines.

What's with the porka sized Camaro and Mopars? I witnessed the new Camaro pulling out of a 7-11 not that long ago, and it really is a huge car. The driver looked a bit lost in it.

I think Ford has done a much better job of keeping to the original successful formula, and they will sell the most 'pony cars'.

 

[sparkplug]

Mustangs are like [censored], everyone has one. hehehe..


Honestly I'm over the Ford vs Chevy debate. I've owned 2 Z28s and a 2000 GT. Both are excellent cars and have been extremely reliable. The only thing to go bad on the GT was the radiator cap. I still own my 95 Quasar Blue Z28. I would love to own another Mustang though!!

 

[rat]

Originally Posted By: genynnc
You all are crazy.

The camaro has the complete pkg.

Rudolph- you gotta be kidding right? There's no silver lining for loosing on the street or the track. The only car that can rave about HP per CI is the 57 Chev 283/283, after that, it's simply irrelevant. And Ford has been trying the 'smaller is better' thing for 30 years or so, and without looking I bet not 1 GT has had a faster quater mile or 0-60 when compared to a Z28 (when it was around) or an SS. There's no way GM is gonna leave the HP where it is for the camaro, I bet its up to 440-450 in the SS in '11

When a stock head from GM flows around 340cfm with a 2.125 valve on a production LQ9 engine, you don't need VVT (even though they have a rough cam phaser setup).

Displacement is king, anywhere, anyday.

But in all honesty, I like the Mustang alot better since the redesign and that bright blue color, it is awsome. And the fact that Ford can actually stand on its own two feet.

I like the Challenger also but it's simply too heavy.

Here's a critique for all of them.

Camaro- ditch the independent rear suspension, adds too much to the price tag. Ride quality and handling aren't that important to old men reliving the 60's.

Mustang- redesign the modular engine without the crazy under square bore/stroke combo. Once you get a bigger bore and smaller stoke, the engine will perform much better (maybe not in emission terms though).

Challenger- I don't know, there is very few cost/saftey effective ways to drop 500-750 lbs.

Please take this all in good fun.







You say that not one Mustang GT has a better 0-60 or quarter mile time than the camaro in the last 30 years? Were you around in the 80's at all?

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: buster
Mustang is the better choice IMO. It's a nicer looking car, and performs very well.


+1

 

[hardcore302]

At least we can agree that these 3 cars are cooler than the japanese offerings..

 

[Drew99GT]

Can you Mustang guys address the issue of the Ford engines being "undersquare"? I was always under the assumption they are oversquare - bigger bore then stroke, which makes them less bottom end torquey and more rev happy.

The new 5.0 DOHC Mustang motor - even if it gives up some performance to the LS3; a DOHC V-8 with a 7,000 rpm redline with variable valve timing - it's like VTEC on Viagra!

 

[Nick R]

There is nothing wrong with the mustang's solid rear axle- remember, we have one. It's a V6, but its the same rear axle and suspension, and guess what, it works just fine. Not to mention it's a [censored] of a lot cheaper than the IRS setup in the camaro and challenger. I'm not exactly sure on the dimensions of the bore and stroke on the new 5.0. though I was under the impression the 4.6L was square.

 

[m3rk]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux

These cars are kind of cool, and mechanically they are quite impressive. What I'm not impressed by is the level of design ingenuity being offered up by the big 3. What I'm talking about is that these cars are basically a warmed over interpretation of something that was probably jaw-dropping and original 40 years ago.

While good to look at, these cars aren't original - in the design sense. Who gets credit for the design of these 2009 cars... really. Is it the designer that came up with the revolutionary designs in the 60's or is it the designers who warmed them over 40 years later?

What I'd like to see is something as original and cutting edge for 2009 as these cars were in 1969. I'd really like Detroit show us what they've got TODAY in terms of design, instead of throwing up their hands and reverting to 40 year old design inspiration. I hope these cars are not the symptom of a bankruptcy of design innovation/courage. I for one enjoy new design and the forward-looking advancement and evolution of car design and have never been a fan of the retro styled cars like the PT Cruiser and these.

What does this mean for the big 3? This is not a bash, but as attractive as these cars and their late '60's inspirations are/were, does this not quite sit right with anyone else?



I agree with you 100% I feel the same way. As big camaro fan i think they should of continued the 4th gens and started a an exotic lookin sleek and more compact 5th gen.. And how can you improve a retro style car by the way ?!

 

[Drew99GT]

I think both Ford and Chrysler have hit a home run with their retro interpretations of the Mustang and the Challenger, especially Ford. The new Mustangs are everything they were back in the day stylewise, but they look modern, cutting edge, and not weird or tacky.

The Camaro on OTOH...

It looks like they rehired the guy who designed the Aztec just to do the back end and tail lights of the Camaro.

 

[m3rk]

Like i said before. im a big camaro fan boy. Seeing this new maro hurts my heart (insert sad face) ..