Hey, if it makes your GM boys feel any better, the 2005-2008 Ford Mustang dash consists of "miles" of plastic, and cheapo materials to make a Hyundai owner blush....It's the times we live in :-(
2009 Camaro interior = awful
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Well, there isn't a dashboard out there today that doesn't consist of miles and miles of plastic. The real question is how well it's pulled off. There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today. I really hope this isn't the final iteration of how the Camaro will look, because IMO the look from those pics is butt ugly. That would even be a case of "bad hygiene butt" butt ugly. Oh my. I'm not consoled at all by the thought that the Mustang is also trying to look cheap and ugly...
I appreciate retro cars ... but they aren't for me. As much as I like the looks, etc ... of the new Mustang, once I sat in one, I knew it wasn't my kind of ride ... just too big and 'massive' feeling.
I prefer smaller, lighter cars with an emphasis on better handling ('tossable').
So, I'm not sure what to make of the dash elements that will probably make it through from test mule to prioduction vehicle. I suppose I like the speedo & tach ... but not much else.
Of course colors are going to change a lot. That red seat is out of place in the rest of that car.
At least Chevy didn't do what Pontiac did with the GTO ... make it with a generic Pontiac "GT" front end that put everyone to sleep. The GTO should have been a winner ... and it would have been if it had tasteful styling cues from the 60s GTOs ... especially a distinctive front end.
As the former owner of a '68 convertible SS, I hope the new Camaro is a winner ... but I'm afraid to get my hopes too far up.
I prefer smaller, lighter cars with an emphasis on better handling ('tossable').
So, I'm not sure what to make of the dash elements that will probably make it through from test mule to prioduction vehicle. I suppose I like the speedo & tach ... but not much else.
Of course colors are going to change a lot. That red seat is out of place in the rest of that car.
At least Chevy didn't do what Pontiac did with the GTO ... make it with a generic Pontiac "GT" front end that put everyone to sleep. The GTO should have been a winner ... and it would have been if it had tasteful styling cues from the 60s GTOs ... especially a distinctive front end.
As the former owner of a '68 convertible SS, I hope the new Camaro is a winner ... but I'm afraid to get my hopes too far up.
Just because it looked that way in '68 doesn't mean they should make the dash look that way today.
I'm tired of these retro styled vehicles, and what this trend says about design philosophy in some car sectors. What made the camaro beautiful in the late 60's was that it was a fresh, innovative and forward-looking design. The trend of retro vehicles in my view is a sign that some designers are bankrupt of ideas.
It's almost as they are saying to designers "look, if you can't come up with anything original, just refine an original design from 35 years ago and call it a day."
Don't get me wrong, I think the camaro is a very nice looking car on the outside. It will undoubtably represent excellent bang for buck as well with the higher displacement ls series engines. However, what I would prefer is a 2009 Camaro that was as original and stunning as the late '60's Camaro was in its time.
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
I'm tired of these retro styled vehicles, and what this trend says about design philosophy in some car sectors. What made the camaro beautiful in the late 60's was that it was a fresh, innovative and forward-looking design. The trend of retro vehicles in my view is a sign that some designers are bankrupt of ideas.
It's almost as they are saying to designers "look, if you can't come up with anything original, just refine an original design from 35 years ago and call it a day."
Don't get me wrong, I think the camaro is a very nice looking car on the outside. It will undoubtably represent excellent bang for buck as well with the higher displacement ls series engines. However, what I would prefer is a 2009 Camaro that was as original and stunning as the late '60's Camaro was in its time.
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
True. And I agree with you.
BUT GM engineers/designers are most certainly NOT going to build a mid engined f body!!!!
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
True. And I agree with you.
BUT GM engineers/designers are most certainly NOT going to build a mid engined f body!!!!
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
I have to say, I was recently at the Washington Auto Show, and I sat in all of the Lexus/Toyota models, and they were easily some of the cheapest, lowest quality interiors at the show. I simply could not believe that high-end Lexus cars still have green-colored LCD clocks and tape decks. The dashboards were bland, plain, and grey, and it did not feel well built. The plastics felt cheap and hard. I couldn't think of a more miserable place to spend my daily commute. I've never been a fan of Toyota products, but IMO, current models are some of the worst I've seen. The 'new' Corolla also had an EXCEPTIONALLY horrible interior. It looked like Hyundai/Kia products of the mid-late 90's. The Sequoia didn't look too bad, but it was terribly unergonomic.
The real surprise of the show? Hyundai. Hyundai's interior designs (ripped off from Infiniti/Merc as they may be) not only looked and felt better than anything from Toyota, they also felt like they were better built. In fact, they were one of the stars of the show in my opinion. Their interiors were functional and welcoming.
The winners of the show (in terms of interior design and quality) were easily Infiniti and Audi, the new Cadillac CTS was also exceptional. On the more affordable side of the scale Hyundai was hands-down the winner.
If you asked me 5 years ago if I'd ever declare Hyundai the winner of anything, I'd say you were crazy. They have really turned themselves around, and if I were in the market for an Asian import, Hyundai would be my first stop.
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
I have to say, I was recently at the Washington Auto Show, and I sat in all of the Lexus/Toyota models, and they were easily some of the cheapest, lowest quality interiors at the show. I simply could not believe that high-end Lexus cars still have green-colored LCD clocks and tape decks. The dashboards were bland, plain, and grey, and it did not feel well built. The plastics felt cheap and hard. I couldn't think of a more miserable place to spend my daily commute. I've never been a fan of Toyota products, but IMO, current models are some of the worst I've seen. The 'new' Corolla also had an EXCEPTIONALLY horrible interior. It looked like Hyundai/Kia products of the mid-late 90's. The Sequoia didn't look too bad, but it was terribly unergonomic.
The real surprise of the show? Hyundai. Hyundai's interior designs (ripped off from Infiniti/Merc as they may be) not only looked and felt better than anything from Toyota, they also felt like they were better built. In fact, they were one of the stars of the show in my opinion. Their interiors were functional and welcoming.
The winners of the show (in terms of interior design and quality) were easily Infiniti and Audi, the new Cadillac CTS was also exceptional. On the more affordable side of the scale Hyundai was hands-down the winner.
If you asked me 5 years ago if I'd ever declare Hyundai the winner of anything, I'd say you were crazy. They have really turned themselves around, and if I were in the market for an Asian import, Hyundai would be my first stop.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
True. And I agree with you.
BUT GM engineers/designers are most certainly NOT going to build a mid engined f body!!!!
No question about it. But I think GM should design something that is unique and original today, not warm-over a 35 year old design. Then we'd have something! That being said, if my stage in life were different, I'd still consider one of these with the 6L engine. At some point I'm guessing that the LS7 will be available in this car as well.
Sadly for me (from an automotive fun perspective), my coupe will eventually be replaced with a 4 door car, and my wife's sedan will be replaced with a mini-van.
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
To get something like this, I think you have to look to design like that found in the Audi R8 or something in that category. In my view it's particularly successful in overcoming the ugly-inducing new tall hood/grille pedestrian safety regulations. Not to mention that the rest of the car is beautiful and modern as well.
True. And I agree with you.
BUT GM engineers/designers are most certainly NOT going to build a mid engined f body!!!!
No question about it. But I think GM should design something that is unique and original today, not warm-over a 35 year old design. Then we'd have something! That being said, if my stage in life were different, I'd still consider one of these with the 6L engine. At some point I'm guessing that the LS7 will be available in this car as well.
Sadly for me (from an automotive fun perspective), my coupe will eventually be replaced with a 4 door car, and my wife's sedan will be replaced with a mini-van.
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Quote:
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
This is what really annoys me. At times (it's not often) the major's appear to put great care in designing a reasonably attractive dash layout ..but seem to hand much of it to some 3rd grade art class for roughing out. Either than or some designer who took too much interest in the polyurethane forming process. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. The traditional speedo/fuel gauge w/idiot light setup has been with GM (or Chevy, anyway) for a long time. It appears that tradition is still the tradition.
It's hard to imagine anyone with any sense of style or "distinctive taste" is at the helm on this aspect of the operation; that is, unless they want them to be unappealing after a certain length of ownership ...like 3-5 years tops.
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
This is what really annoys me. At times (it's not often) the major's appear to put great care in designing a reasonably attractive dash layout ..but seem to hand much of it to some 3rd grade art class for roughing out. Either than or some designer who took too much interest in the polyurethane forming process. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. The traditional speedo/fuel gauge w/idiot light setup has been with GM (or Chevy, anyway) for a long time. It appears that tradition is still the tradition.
It's hard to imagine anyone with any sense of style or "distinctive taste" is at the helm on this aspect of the operation; that is, unless they want them to be unappealing after a certain length of ownership ...like 3-5 years tops.
What is the target age of the buyer they are trying to attract?
Chevrolet is the heartbreak of America .
Was the Aztek a test mule ??
The exterior of the new Camaro is butt ugly, why shouldn't the interior match? They'll have good company in that market though. Ford did a good job with the styling of the latest Mustang but it too has a cheap looking and poorly styled interior.
Why designers bring also back all the all the bad parts when they do retro designs is beyond me...
Why designers bring also back all the all the bad parts when they do retro designs is beyond me...
This car will last for 3 years and then fade away just like the retro Thunderbird.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Well, there isn't a dashboard out there today that doesn't consist of miles and miles of plastic. The real question is how well it's pulled off. There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today. I really hope this isn't the final iteration of how the Camaro will look, because IMO the look from those pics is butt ugly. That would even be a case of "bad hygiene butt" butt ugly. Oh my. I'm not consoled at all by the thought that the Mustang is also trying to look cheap and ugly...
But even that is subject to a lot of spin and bias. I got a ride in an 08 civic recently... supposedly it has a high quality feel to its interior, but it looked and felt like garbage. Then again, I take a ride in a rental chevy HHR, and it looks at least as good as the generic garbage that they put in any honda.
Its all trash. Very few companies make a quality feel to their interiors. I'd say that VW/Audi does a decent job (though the A3 in our opinion, was a HUGE disapointment), lexus does really well, and that is about it without getting into huge dollars.
Soft feel materials are [censored] too... more prone to cracking, degrading and off gassing. Out 94 integra and previa are great examples. The integra has a soft feel dash, and it got cracks... the previa has a hard coated plastic dash, and still looks like new.
I really don't have faith in any automaker's interior materials or "quality" look/feel. The big two Japanese makers are worse than most, IMO, because they get praised yet they are lousy.
Ergonomics is one thing, but even that has more to do with what you are used to, what you do habitually, and what your body stature is like. A great example is that the speedo in the new civic is unwieldy and in a dumb spot (for me), yet the center cluster in some toyotas, and the center display up on the dash in my saab work well. If I was shorter? maybe it wouldnt be the same... I dont really know.
You have to buy what works for you... "cheap and ugly" is open to interpretation, and generally means nothing reproducible.
JMH
Well, there isn't a dashboard out there today that doesn't consist of miles and miles of plastic. The real question is how well it's pulled off. There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today. I really hope this isn't the final iteration of how the Camaro will look, because IMO the look from those pics is butt ugly. That would even be a case of "bad hygiene butt" butt ugly. Oh my. I'm not consoled at all by the thought that the Mustang is also trying to look cheap and ugly...
But even that is subject to a lot of spin and bias. I got a ride in an 08 civic recently... supposedly it has a high quality feel to its interior, but it looked and felt like garbage. Then again, I take a ride in a rental chevy HHR, and it looks at least as good as the generic garbage that they put in any honda.
Its all trash. Very few companies make a quality feel to their interiors. I'd say that VW/Audi does a decent job (though the A3 in our opinion, was a HUGE disapointment), lexus does really well, and that is about it without getting into huge dollars.
Soft feel materials are [censored] too... more prone to cracking, degrading and off gassing. Out 94 integra and previa are great examples. The integra has a soft feel dash, and it got cracks... the previa has a hard coated plastic dash, and still looks like new.
I really don't have faith in any automaker's interior materials or "quality" look/feel. The big two Japanese makers are worse than most, IMO, because they get praised yet they are lousy.
Ergonomics is one thing, but even that has more to do with what you are used to, what you do habitually, and what your body stature is like. A great example is that the speedo in the new civic is unwieldy and in a dumb spot (for me), yet the center cluster in some toyotas, and the center display up on the dash in my saab work well. If I was shorter? maybe it wouldnt be the same... I dont really know.
You have to buy what works for you... "cheap and ugly" is open to interpretation, and generally means nothing reproducible.
JMH
Cheap and ugly is the 3rd brake light on the new Camry. I guess Toyota couldn't spare more than 4 bulbs for that thing.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
... "cheap and ugly" is open to interpretation
JMH
The Camaro's squarish steering wheel and the center stack which appears to be giving birth strike me as grossly ugly, and therefore, in my mind, universally so. But in general I agree that perceptions vary greatly.
... "cheap and ugly" is open to interpretation
JMH
The Camaro's squarish steering wheel and the center stack which appears to be giving birth strike me as grossly ugly, and therefore, in my mind, universally so. But in general I agree that perceptions vary greatly.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
This is what really annoys me. At times (it's not often) the major's appear to put great care in designing a reasonably attractive dash layout ..but seem to hand much of it to some 3rd grade art class for roughing out. Either than or some designer who took too much interest in the polyurethane forming process. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. The traditional speedo/fuel gauge w/idiot light setup has been with GM (or Chevy, anyway) for a long time. It appears that tradition is still the tradition.
It's hard to imagine anyone with any sense of style or "distinctive taste" is at the helm on this aspect of the operation; that is, unless they want them to be unappealing after a certain length of ownership ...like 3-5 years tops.
I have never really thought about it in this way, but this explanation would explain alot. You might have something here.
Quote:
There are miles and miles worth of subjective perception difference between the miles of plastic found in a Lexus and the miles of plastic found in a low end product from any mfr today.
This is what really annoys me. At times (it's not often) the major's appear to put great care in designing a reasonably attractive dash layout ..but seem to hand much of it to some 3rd grade art class for roughing out. Either than or some designer who took too much interest in the polyurethane forming process. There really doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it. The traditional speedo/fuel gauge w/idiot light setup has been with GM (or Chevy, anyway) for a long time. It appears that tradition is still the tradition.
It's hard to imagine anyone with any sense of style or "distinctive taste" is at the helm on this aspect of the operation; that is, unless they want them to be unappealing after a certain length of ownership ...like 3-5 years tops.
I have never really thought about it in this way, but this explanation would explain alot. You might have something here.
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