2005 Yukon XL

[95busa]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: 95busa
Thanks for the response. I am sure it will be fine. I am pulling with a 330ci naturally aspirated engine in a heavier vehicle (6000lbs, not six tons), with a roughly equivalent gear ratio (3.73-1 with 33" tires as opposed to 3.42-1 with roughly 30" tires), shouldnt be an issue.


I was thinking about a ~12k GCW (7k truck + 5k trailer). My mistake for not clarifying.

The comparison you're making is misleading and flawed, as it's truly apples-to-oranges here; with a significant load in tow, the driving experience between a Super Duty/TorqShift and Yukon(1500)/4L60-E will be vastly different.

Man---I could go on for days on this one. I have pulled this with a v6 F150. I have also pulled it with my F250. News flash- pulling POWER wise- not much difference. The torqshift has a lower first gear, 1-1 (most common gear I use when towing) is THE SAME. The biggest difference is suspension, which I grant you is night and day. Some Bilsteins in the back or helper springs and I think it would be ok. We will see. Clearly durability wise- the F250 could do this every day for 200K miles. A half ton- not so much. Once again- I am unsure what this has to do with my question- which was durability of the truck. Not your opinion of how subjectively well it will tow. This is what I hate about BITOG

 

[KD0AXS]

I'm not trying to preach "doom and gloom", just pointing out a few things that are commonly overlooked when considering a tow vehicle. I'd be lying if I said I never operated a vehicle over its rated capacity. I've hauled over 5,000 lbs in the bed of my truck, which put me 2000 lbs over GVWR, no problem. I've also towed over 8,000 lbs with my old 6 cylinder F-150 that was only rated for 3500 lbs towing, no problem there either.


As long as you're set up properly, I think the Yukon will work just fine, even if you're right at max capacity or even a little over. Make sure your trailer brakes are in good working order. If you're not already using one, you'll definitely want a good weight distributing hitch. You've mentioned helper springs, just remember that they reduce the rear end sag, but don't actually increase your weight capacity. Probably one of the most overlooked things is tires. Many of these SUVs end up with passenger car tires on them. With the weight you're carrying, some load range E tires are probably in order.

Durability wise, I think this is a well proven platform that is certainly capable of what you want it to do.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
For all the sanctimonious holier than thou individuals who feel the need to dissect towing safety whenever it is discussed. This seems to be a trend. Whenever someone on BITOG mentions towing, someone breaks some stats and advises whatever someone is wanting to tow is VASTLY irresponsible and unsafe, get sued, endanger everyone...blah blah.. According to the owners manual, the GCWR of a 2005 Yukon XL with 3.42-1 gears is 13,000lbs. So....rough math, 6000 for truck, 5500 for trailer (LOADED- this is a very heavy estimate- think 21 foot ultralight trailer. I removed the propane tanks- less tongue weight and total weight), 1200 for cargo and pax in truck. Sounds like under the GCWR to me buddy. I asked about durability, instead I get folks questioning safety, thinking I wont like how it tows without apparently reading my posts and understanding I used to tow this thing with a V6 F150! Could it possibly be worse than that? I doubt it!!! All you doom preachers can go pound sand. I ask about durability of a truck, I get people's (IMO) questionable and sanctimonious opinions on safety....bleeding Jesus!


Since you already have your mind made up, why even ask the question? Then you don't have to listen to people who are pointing out the glaring problems with your choice.

I personally agree that I would not pull a trailer that heavy with the equivalent of a half ton pickup. But then some of us who understand the dynamics of trailering know that the GCWR is only one part of the entire picture. But please, go right ahead-I hope it goes well for you.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
All you doom preachers can go pound sand. I ask about durability of a truck, I get people's (IMO) questionable and sanctimonious opinions on safety....bleeding Jesus!


...and durability is exactly part of the equation I was referring to in the experience between a Super Duty/TorqShift and Yukon 1500/4L60-E.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Since you already have your mind made up, why even ask the question? Then you don't have to listen to people who are pointing out the glaring problems with your choice.


+1. Again, good luck.

 

[95busa]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit

For all the sanctimonious holier than thou individuals who feel the need to dissect towing safety whenever it is discussed. This seems to be a trend. Whenever someone on BITOG mentions towing, someone breaks some stats and advises whatever someone is wanting to tow is VASTLY irresponsible and unsafe, get sued, endanger everyone...blah blah.. According to the owners manual, the GCWR of a 2005 Yukon XL with 3.42-1 gears is 13,000lbs. So....rough math, 6000 for truck, 5500 for trailer (LOADED- this is a very heavy estimate- think 21 foot ultralight trailer. I removed the propane tanks- less tongue weight and total weight), 1200 for cargo and pax in truck. Sounds like under the GCWR to me buddy. I asked about durability, instead I get folks questioning safety, thinking I wont like how it tows without apparently reading my posts and understanding I used to tow this thing with a V6 F150! Could it possibly be worse than that? I doubt it!!! All you doom preachers can go pound sand. I ask about durability of a truck, I get people's (IMO) questionable and sanctimonious opinions on safety....bleeding Jesus!


Since you already have your mind made up, why even ask the question? Then you don't have to listen to people who are pointing out the glaring problems with your choice.

I personally agree that I would not pull a trailer that heavy with the equivalent of a half ton pickup. But then some of us who understand the dynamics of trailering know that the GCWR is only one part of the entire picture. But please, go right ahead-I hope it goes well for you.[/quot
I asked a question you chose not to answer. The "glaring" problem you point out is one part speculation and the other part clenched **** hand wringing self-righteousness. I have read some of your [censored] before. Of course, pulling a 5500lb trailer with a truck rated to tow 7700lbs is insanity! All these half tons rated for 8-10K these days what are they thinking? I wish everyone had the edge of the bell curve common sense you have to not tow anything heavier than a riding mower with a 1/2 ton. My mind was made up as far as towing capacity....my concerns were with the drivetrain. Your conversations must be epic.....your wife..."Honey, do you want eggs or bacon for breakfast?"...PopRivet...."That is ludicrous, I want steak for supper! Why do you ask me if your mind is made up?"! How about dont get surprised when you offer an opinion nobody asked for! Oh yeah.....FYI, I have supervised the loading and pulling of armored D9 bulldozers (more than 75 tons), all kinds of loads in all kinds of terrain. Some folks might know something about towing as well. Once again....pound sand.

 

[95busa]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: 95busa
All you doom preachers can go pound sand. I ask about durability of a truck, I get people's (IMO) questionable and sanctimonious opinions on safety....bleeding Jesus!


...and durability is exactly part of the equation I was referring to in the experience between a Super Duty/TorqShift and Yukon 1500/4L60-E.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Since you already have your mind made up, why even ask the question? Then you don't have to listen to people who are pointing out the glaring problems with your choice.


+1. Again, good luck.


You never once mentioned durability. You mentioned towing experience.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
You never once mentioned durability. You mentioned towing experience.


For the sake of clarity - drivetrain and component durability is one (very significant) part of the towing experience.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
Of course, pulling a 5500lb trailer with a truck rated to tow 7700lbs is insanity!


What you don't understand here is how these tow ratings are calculated. It's not just you, this is a very common mistake. The 7700 lb tow rating is calculated using a base model vehicle, not one loaded with options. It's also calculated with zero cargo or passengers. Since a camper has a typical tongue weight of around 15%, every pound you add to the vehicle takes about 6 pounds off your towing capacity. If you add 500 pounds of people and cargo in the vehicle, that's 500 pounds less you have for tongue weight, which translates into 3000 pounds less trailer. Again, it's not so much about the advertised towing capacity, it's the total weight that's actually being carried by the tow vehicle that limits your towing capacity in most cases.

I understand that you used to pull this trailer with an F-150, but the F-150 probably had more payload capacity and you weren't hauling six people in it.

Most people don't realize how easy it is to overload SUVs and vans. Most claim to have seating for 7 or 8 people, but if you fill all the seats you've already overloaded the vehicle in many cases before you even add any cargo or a trailer.


I really do think that the Yukon would work just fine for you as long as you're set up properly.

This is no different than these guys hauling huge fifth wheels with 3/4 ton and even 1 ton SRW trucks. They might be "rated" for 15,000+ pounds of fifth wheel towing, but the pin weight puts the truck way overweight.


Quote:
All these half tons rated for 8-10K these days what are they thinking?


The half tons made today are a totally different animal. They have more powerful engines, better transmissions, stronger frames, stronger suspension components, and better brakes than they did 10 years ago, which all adds up to more hauling/towing capacity.

 

[CKN]

It's really ironic how parents would go to "the ends of the Earth" to protect their children, but have no problem putting them in a vehicle that at the least will be right at the max. And at the most over.

Really ironic...........

Your right OP-I do have an agenda on every (truck/towing) board I frequent-that's to keep guys like you off the road. FYI- Most half ton vehicles can never tow maximum towing capacity without going over payload. KDOAXS was trying to tell everyone that. IMHO your potentially in an unsafe situation for your family and those near you on the highway.

 

[IndyIan]

Is going over the payload even a bad thing if you have a load balancing hitch? Usually the tires have a much higher load capacity than the vehicle rating so they are OK. More weight on the vehicle and less on the trailer, what does it matter really? You still have the same total load with more weight on the better suspension, brakes, and tires of the vehicle.
I think the vehicle payload numbers are determined more for suspension tuning to prevent roll overs when not towing a trailer anyways.

 

[CKN]

A weight distributing hitch doesn't make the weight go away. The vast majority of the weight is still on the rear and front axles of the tow vehicle-which count towards PAYLOAD.

 

[95busa]

Originally Posted By: CKN
It's really ironic how parents would go to "the ends of the Earth" to protect their children, but have no problem putting them in a vehicle that at the least will be right at the max. And at the most over.

Really ironic...........

Your right OP-I do have an agenda on every (truck/towing) board I frequent-that's to keep guys like you off the road. FYI- Most half ton vehicles can never tow maximum towing capacity without going over payload. KDOAXS was trying to tell everyone that. IMHO your potentially in an unsafe situation for your family and those near you on the highway.

Naw....what you are doing is talking big behind a keyboard with partial knowledge, suppositions and a holier than thou attitude. If you were really passionate, you would go down to your local campground and offer your unsolicited opinions on all of the loads and rigs there, and probably get your sanctimonious lights punched out. Unfortunately for the minutes of my life I wasted reading your assumptions, you just troll, because you have no equity in the game. If i melt the transmission, I have equity. The load is safe, so I don't sweat that or value your opinion (which I didnt ask for on the weight of the load). But either way, you don't have to sweat the details. However, if you told me that if I pulled this load safely for two years without melting the transmission, I could come to your house and punch you in the face, then I would respect your opinion, because then you have equity in the game. Then you would have the courage of your conviction. With no skin in the game, you are pretty much a troll. Or you could roll on down to the local KOA and start criticizing rigs after dark. I would respect that too.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: 95busa
Originally Posted By: CKN
It's really ironic how parents would go to "the ends of the Earth" to protect their children, but have no problem putting them in a vehicle that at the least will be right at the max. And at the most over.

Really ironic...........

Your right OP-I do have an agenda on every (truck/towing) board I frequent-that's to keep guys like you off the road. FYI- Most half ton vehicles can never tow maximum towing capacity without going over payload. KDOAXS was trying to tell everyone that. IMHO your potentially in an unsafe situation for your family and those near you on the highway.

Naw....what you are doing is talking big behind a keyboard with partial knowledge, suppositions and a holier than thou attitude. If you were really passionate, you would go down to your local campground and offer your unsolicited opinions on all of the loads and rigs there, and probably get your sanctimonious lights punched out. Unfortunately for the minutes of my life I wasted reading your assumptions, you just troll, because you have no equity in the game. If i melt the transmission, I have equity. The load is safe, so I don't sweat that or value your opinion (which I didnt ask for on the weight of the load). But either way, you don't have to sweat the details. However, if you told me that if I pulled this load safely for two years without melting the transmission, I could come to your house and punch you in the face, then I would respect your opinion, because then you have equity in the game. Then you would have the courage of your conviction. With no skin in the game, you are pretty much a troll. Or you could roll on down to the local KOA and start criticizing rigs after dark. I would respect that too.


I towed my 5,500 pound travel trailer 8,000 miles in 8 months around the USA two years ago. And many trips between Utah and Las Vegas, NV. When you have that many miles under a wide variety of geography and weather, you can repost. So I have the experience and my post(s) about your situation is based on real life experience and not pontification.

There was a big discussion over on a popular RV board I frequent. The conversation was how many 1/2 ton truck owners make poor choices when matching up a trailer to a tow vehicle. So your not really alone.

BTW-anybody on the open road next to an overloaded rig has "equity" with your situation running on the edge when a failure of any circumstance happens.

I wish you nothing but Happy trails with your setup.

 

[Nate1979]

^^^I'm assuming you are referring to rv.net. You fail to mention that there is no agreement on the importance of payload on that site and that many very knowlegable posters feel payload is a minor detail because in many states you can get plates licensed higher than your gvwr. IMO axle and tire capacities are much more important than payload. But people come onto message boards screaming about payload this and payload that and if you go over get ready for a lawsuit blah blah blah.

 

[CKN]

The point being if you are over payload-and you have an at fault accident, the burden will be on you to prove it was safe to go over the manufacturers recommendation.

Do we agree that's a formidable task? There are a only a handful of posters on the above mentioned site that feel payload is not as important-even though it's a manufacturers recommendation.

And just become some states issue plates under certain circumstances doesn't mean you are safe. My state (Utah) just raised the speed limit to 80mph, there are many who feel that 80mph is not safe-few driver's have the ability to recover from an error (or a front flat tire) at that speed, plus people are now driving 90mph-"pushing" the limit.

 

[cptbarkey]

You want a Tahoe instead of an F250. I read your needs, and I still dont get it.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: CKN
The point being if you are over payload-and you have an at fault accident, the burden will be on you to prove it was safe to go over the manufacturers recommendation.

Do we agree that's a formidable task? There are a only a handful of posters on the above mentioned site that feel payload is not as important-even though it's a manufacturers recommendation.

And just become some states issue plates under certain circumstances doesn't mean you are safe. My state (Utah) just raised the speed limit to 80mph, there are many who feel that 80mph is not safe-few driver's have the ability to recover from an error (or a front flat tire) at that speed, plus people are now driving 90mph-"pushing" the limit.


Just because you are within a rating doesn't mean you are safe and doesn't mean you can't be negligent.

Who says it is the person who is at fault who will have to prove they are not negligent for going over payload? Why couldn't they prove that they are within tire and axle ratings and that is good enough?

It's not even a ticketable offense to be over payload non-commercial.

The problem is you can buy the exact same vehicles with different GVWR's with exact same components except for very small measurable changes. In this case GVWR's do not match the actual equipment but are more marketing than anything. In some 3/4ton+ trucks you can even decide what GVWR you want with the exact same truck just because of licensing reasons!

IMO there are so many other things more important than payload. Overloading a tow vehicle beyond what a reasonable person would do can be a very broad term and is much more than just looking at manufacturer suggested ratings like GVWR. If as a reasonable person you do not feel safe driving a tow vehicle for any reason then that person should reconsider the situation.

 

[CKN]

Nate 1979-one could certainly try to prove they were safe over payload ratings-BUT IT WOULD BE A FORMIDABLE TASK.

IMHO-the OP is overloaded.
Going from an F250 to his potential Tahoe-is like going from a Cadillac to a Hyundai Accent.

Two totally different animals-one not suited to the task at hand.

As far as NOT being a ticketable offense-is this for Oregon?

 

[sweezy722]

Get the Yukon XL. You will love it.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Nate 1979-one could certainly try to prove they were safe over payload ratings-BUT IT WOULD BE A FORMIDABLE TASK.

IMHO-the OP is overloaded.
Going from an F250 to his potential Tahoe-is like going from a Cadillac to a Hyundai Accent.

Two totally different animals-one not suited to the task at hand.

As far as NOT being a ticketable offense-is this for Oregon?


This has been discussed at length on rv.net and no one has been able to point to laws or cases where people were ticketed for over the payload (anywhere in the US). Many persons had asked to LEOs, even some LEOs have posted directly that axle ratings and tire ratings are what the DOT road/bridge laws care about. This is assuming you are licensed to tow the weight you are towing.

What I disagree with as the other poster had mentioned is that people come on message boards screaming about payload without anything to back it up. Most of them have no clue. I wasn't saying in this case whether the poster was safe or not. What I'm saying is that payload is part of the equation but not a black or white area. Axle and tire ratings are much more important.

In this case it is a loaded 5500lb trailer. He very well could be well within all the ratings (7-800 tongue weight), but I would check axle and tire rating first, hitch rating second, and then see how it tows. The 5500lb is well..... within the rating of the truck. If within the rating of axle, tires, and hitch I would try it out.

I've heard those 4-speeds can be kind of weak so you may expect to rebuild it after towing heavy but they can be rebuilt stronger as they are so well known.