2004 F-150 5.4 3V

[BISCUT]

Hello to all. Yes, new to the forum.

Like the title said, 04 F-150 with the 5.4 3V. At 64k miles I changed the plugs, front/rear differential fluids (PML oversize rear Diff cover added), as well as Trans filter/fluid, and transfer case. She is running as good as she possibly can right now.

Same mileage, oil was changed with Mobil 1 5w20 and a Motorcraft filter. I am a few hundred miles form the 4k mark. I plan on changing it at 4k and getting an analysis completed (Blackstone) and running Motorcraft Sync-Blend 5-20 with Motorcraft filter for 4k and analysis.

My thought was that at 4k mile change intervail I'm peeing away money with Mobil 1 and Motorcraft Synthetic Blend ever 4k should be just as beneficial at the 4k mark. I should mention I almost never tow anything and she's not driven hard.

Guess its just the way I am wired, I have a mental block of going past 5k miles with even Mobil 1 oil. I go with 4k on my F-150 above due to the fact that it often takes me 4 1/2 months to get the 4k miles accured.

Throwing this out there to see if anyone else has done similar with this engine and if there are any things I should consider to ensure the comparison is as apple to apple as I can get it.

Thanks!!

 

[renegade_987]

First,

to the forum! I have a 2004 F150 but with the 4.6L.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT


Guess its just the way I am wired, I have a mental block of going past 5k miles with even Mobil 1 oil.


you could easily run Mobil 1 for 7-10K depending on driving conditions, and Motorcraft could be run longer, too.

 

[Jim Allen]

I have an '05 F150, 5.43V and, yes, a 4K interval is peeing money away, even if you use Motorcraft syn blend oil. 4K on M1 is more like removing your bladder without anesthesia when you have to unrinate ( : < ). Work on that mental block for your money's sake!

A lot depends on the operating environment. If the truck isn't short-hopped, especially in cold weather, you can go lots farther than 4K. In my experience, the 5.4L is easy on oil and I think you can do 7.5K on MC 5W40 syn blend and MC 820S filter in decent conditions. At least go 5K before you used oil analysis. If you want to see some recent used oil analysis on my truck, go here:

F150 used oil analysis

There are others on the board too and they show that the 5.4L is not picky and capable of a long interval. M1 is at least as good as the RP I used, so now you see that 10K is possible in a 5.4L

When you used oil analysis, don't expect to tell much about engine wear by looking at the metals. One used oil analysis won't tell you anything useful in that regard (it takes many unless something drastic has just happened), but if you opt for TBN and TAN (at least TBN, because TBN and TAN are inverse, when you see TBN is down to about 35-40 percent of virgin, you know TAN is approaching a high number), you can tell how the oil is holding up and that's what you are looking for. You'll also look at insolubles, viscosity and fuel content to gauge the length of your next OCI. I have also found it useful to send in a virgin sample as well. That way you can see the starting TBN, as measured on the same lab equipment as was used on your used sample. I gives you a much more accurate way to measure oil condition via TBN/TAN on a longer interval, IMO.

Time is not much of a factor to oil. It can't tell time (within reasonable limits). There is plenty of test evidence of this but I proved it to myself with used oil analysis that stretched as far as three years on some of my farm equipment. My Ford 5.4L regularly does around two years, so in your case six months to a year is no worry at all, IMO.

The key is minimizing short hops where the engine doesn't get fully warmed up often. That's when the acids form and the oil degrades quickly fighting them off. Once the additives are used up, then the acidic oil starts attacking the engine.

Short hops are gauged by oil temp and I can offer some perspective on that with regards to the 5.4L. I can measure oil temp on my truck and it takes 5-10 miles to get the oil in a 5.4L up to 180F on a moderate (70F day, depending on engine load) and about 15 miles to get it up to 190F. On a 60-70F day oil temp will stabilize about 180-185ish. On 100F days, with 5W20, it will run about 200F-ish. Add a load and it might get into 210F. From what I have learned (and some may disagree), 15-20 minutes at 150-180F is enough to clear the oil of ordinary amounts of moisture. Longer is better but 30 minutes is more than enough, except perhaps in sub zero weather (in my case, 30 minutes at 0F will only get oil temp to about 160F but eventually it will get close to 180).

Based on what I see, a short hop on a 5.4L is five mile runs or less in weather below 60F. Hotter weather speeds things along nicely.

Bottom line, in my semi-educated-but-experienced opinion, if you can't break the 5K mental barrier, use the MC 5W20 (a good oil in all respects). I believe you can do 5k in just about any condition above repeated extreme short trips (under a mile). In moderate conditions with decent length runs, up to 7.5K is easily possible with the MC. Above that, you need a syn but a decent one can take you to 10K in moderate operating conditions.

 

[tig1]

Simple used oil analysis are not really a tool for determining which oils are the best. They can detect coolant are dirt. Mc may be a fine oil for 4K OCIs,(I have never used it) but M1 will keep your engine very clean for lots of miles even with 10K OCIs as I do.

 

[Michael_P]

You changed the plugs?

These 3V's can be a pain. Did you use OE or 1 piece aftermarket?

 

[BISCUT]

Originally Posted By: Michael_P
You changed the plugs?

These 3V's can be a pain. Did you use OE or 1 piece aftermarket?


Plugs were original factory...due to all the horror stories I asked a friend who is a basic plane jane mechanic to do it for me. I used the "improved" Motorcraft plug. He charged me 2 hours labor ($150) and said it legitimately took him 2 hours.

BUT from what I know the main issue with breaking plugs is the accumulation of carbon which for lack of better term guled the plugs in....If you follow the Ford TSB you should be just fine. Not a one of mine broke. I have a picture of all 8 of the plugs. A little kroil oil (engine warm not hot) soaked for a few minuted and work them back n forth slowly. Bank #1 or #8 (passenger side rear) where the computer mod is; that one gave him fits due to no room. He's stubborn and refused to remove the computer...just remove it!

I'll do mine myself next time at 140k.

If you want the pic of what my plugs look like let me know.

 

[BISCUT]

I've read what was posted, BUT..........

I can fully understand Mobil 1 or Amsoil, Redline, etc... top quality oils lubricating for extended mileage even 10k miles. BUT part: Doesn't any oil, conventional or synthetic, keep the byproducsts of combustion in suspension? So, my noodle is saying there is only so much room for those byproducts to be filtered and/or held in suspension.

At what point does the filter not be able to hold these particles? I like Motorcraft (I understand made by Puralator) and use them or Puralator Gold.

 

[tig1]

Here are the pics of my Focus with 10K OCIs. Spotless clean.

 

[MNgopher]

I also own a 2004 F150 5.4 3V. Given your description of use, you could easily go to a 5000 mile oil change and not look back or worry about a thing. If you want to go longer, I'd go the UOA route to guide the length of interval, but given your oil choice and usage, used oil analysis are flat out not needed for 5000 mile changes. (For what its worth, I do 5000 mile oil changes using the cheapest name brand conventional 5w20 oil I can find at the time of the oil change. Currently have Mobil Super or Clean 5w20 in it. Motorcraft Oil filters only).

I bought my truck used. One reason I like this one was the plugs had already been changed with dealership documentation (They broke 3 plugs on removal). They weren't done until 102,000 miles. I plan to have them done every 60,000, using the motorcraft plug.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I've read what was posted, BUT..........

I can fully understand Mobil 1 or Amsoil, Redline, etc... top quality oils lubricating for extended mileage even 10k miles. BUT part: Doesn't any oil, conventional or synthetic, keep the byproducsts of combustion in suspension? So, my noodle is saying there is only so much room for those byproducts to be filtered and/or held in suspension.

At what point does the filter not be able to hold these particles? I like Motorcraft (I understand made by Puralator) and use them or Puralator Gold.



Again, I refer you to the used oil analysis referenced in the post above. Also, look in the used oil analysis section and view the Insolubles part of many used oil analysis. Insolubles are the totality of the solid contaminants in the engine. The metal particles listed in the elemental analysis are typically under 5um (um is for microns) in size and could not be trapped by the filter. The filter will stop pretty much everything to it's absolute micron rating (typically around 19-25 microns). As the filter loads, the larger pores will fill up and filtering efficiency actually improves somewhat. Particles from 10 microns and up are largely the ones responsible for any abnormal wear.

Bottom line, if the particle is to big to pass thru the filter then it never will. The filter is the final stop. If the filter loads completely up, then it will bypass but that takes a long time. Many filters can theoretically run two or three OCIs safely and not load up... not that you you'd want to do that.

Byproducts of combustion are not usually particulates anyway (except perhaps the odd bit of carbon and soot in diesels which is sub micron in size to start and then agglomerates). For the most part, the combustion stuff is the source of chemical reactions that the additive package fights until depleted (That's what TBN (total base number) represents. This is all simplified.

Bottom line, all the bad stuff doesn't happen until long after 4 or 5K miles, unless there are special circumstances in the driving cycle that dictate a shorter interval.

It still only takes about 40 lbs-ft to break a Motorcraft plug but they reduced the diameter of the tip so carbon can't grab it too hard. It's still potentially possible to break the new ones, but lots less likely. I changed mine out at 19K for one piece Champions and have never looked back. We don't have many choices of plug at the moment. Two of the foru brands on the market I wouldn't touch at all (Brisk or E3). I'd probably go MC again if I had to but I doubt I ever will.

 

[BISCUT]

Sure looks like I came to the right forum! Thanks for all the information. This will be my first time running analysis so I'm sure not well versed at reading them.

The additional cost for the TBN was what I really wanted to see. I don't expect (but never can tell until its done) to see any fuel or coolant in the mix.

Thanks again.