2003 Camry: Grinding or binding noise when turning steering wheel

[mojoe]

but only at very slow speed, like when turning into a parking place or backing in or out of driveway. There is also a similar sound when going over speed bumps at very low speed. Not a clicking sound like CV joint. Sounds like all of it is coming from left front behind dash, under the hood. I took it to local tire store that replaced my struts last summer. They said it was a bad power steering pump. I had the power steering pump and tensioner (and rack and pinion) replaced by a different shop almost exactly 3 years ago, so I took it home and replaced the power steering fluid. That definitely made the steering wheel turn noticeably smoother and easier, but the grinding/rubbing noise is still there. I have also replaced front ball joints, all 4 sway bar links since last spring. I have been under the car and checked all of those, plus brakes and CV axle, control arms, and tie rods. Everything seems to be tight and in good shape. If it really is a bad power steering pump, I may give it a go myself; I hate to pay what a mechanic will charge for that on this old car. I could just drive it until something breaks or it becomes obvious what's causing it, but right now I'm at a loss.

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[mk378]

If it does it with the car stopped, have someone turn the wheel while you listen outside.

If it only happens when you turn sharply in one direction with the car moving, a tire could be rubbing on the fender liner.

 

[mojoe]

If it does it with the car stopped, have someone turn the wheel while you listen outside.

If it only happens when you turn sharply in one direction with the car moving, a tire could be rubbing on the fender liner.

I have tried that, and the sound can't be heard over the sound of the engine running and ambient outside noise. It happens in both directions, and can be heard when the car is not moving, but is more noticeable when moving at very slow speed.

 

[D60]

Sounds like a strut mount. Shop #1 won't want to admit it

 

[Trav]

but only at very slow speed, like when turning into a parking place or backing in or out of driveway. There is also a similar sound when going over speed bumps at very low speed. Not a clicking sound like CV joint. Sounds like all of it is coming from left front behind dash, under the hood. I took it to local tire store that replaced my struts last summer. They said it was a bad power steering pump. I had the power steering pump and tensioner (and rack and pinion) replaced by a different shop almost exactly 3 years ago, so I took it home and replaced the power steering fluid. That definitely made the steering wheel turn noticeably smoother and easier, but the grinding/rubbing noise is still there. I have also replaced front ball joints, all 4 sway bar links since last spring. I have been under the car and checked all of those, plus brakes and CV axle, control arms, and tie rods. Everything seems to be tight and in good shape. If it really is a bad power steering pump, I may give it a go myself; I hate to pay what a mechanic will charge for that on this old car. I could just drive it until something breaks or it becomes obvious what's causing it, but right now I'm at a loss.

Any ideas or suggestions?

From your description it sounds to me like a quite possibly a bad steering shaft joint if not a strut bearing. A common ailment in some cars.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I would have someone turn the steering wheel while you listen under the hood. Could be the PS pump again.
At least you can do a better inspection of the steering components. Should be fairly obvious...

 

[D60]

Might be tricky on a Camry but if you can touch the coil spring(s) while someone turns, a strut mount might transmit. Compare left to right. If they're equal, this proves nothing.

 

[mojoe]

I would have someone turn the steering wheel while you listen under the hood. Could be the PS pump again.
At least you can do a better inspection of the steering components. Should be fairly obvious...

Would a bad power steering pump cause the similar sounds when going over bumps?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Would a bad power steering pump cause the similar sounds when going over bumps?

Doesn't sound likely, but my main suggestion is to do a closer inspection. Isolate the noice.
Good luck.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Ps pump would be on the right side if describing it from where you sit driving the car. Is the noise from the front / accessory side of the engine or is it a noise from the actual steering and or suspension? I don’t remember the body styles and engines, but does that model Camry still have a manual tensioned drive belt for the ps? Could it just simply be loose?

 

[mojoe]

Ps pump would be on the right side if describing it from where you sit driving the car. Is the noise from the front / accessory side of the engine or is it a noise from the actual steering and or suspension? I don’t remember the body styles and engines, but does that model Camry still have a manual tensioned drive belt for the ps? Could it just simply be loose?

The noise seems to be coming from the front driver's side. The PS pump is on passenger side. Belt is not loose.

 

[mojoe]

Is there any way I can take the strut off at home and inspect it and the mount without having a way to compress the spring?

 

[The_Jeff]

Is there any way I can take the strut off at home and inspect it and the mount without having a way to compress the spring?

You wouldn't want to do this, the best inspection is done on the car. Like said have someone put their hand on the spring while there's weight on it while an operator turns the steering wheel lock to lock. Any strut bearing problem will show in a resonance in the spring.

I agree with Trav, though, the intermediate steering shaft u-joints go bad on these cars. You can usually grease them and keep them alive, though, which is pleasantly cheap.

 

[mojoe]

You wouldn't want to do this, the best inspection is done on the car. Like said have someone put their hand on the spring while there's weight on it while an operator turns the steering wheel lock to lock. Any strut bearing problem will show in a resonance in the spring.

I agree with Trav, though, the intermediate steering shaft u-joints go bad on these cars. You can usually grease them and keep them alive, though, which is pleasantly cheap.

Thanks. I will give that a go with the strut. I'm pretty sure the intermediate shaft was replaced a few years ago when the rack and pinion was replaced, but that's probably the next thing on my list if it's not the strut/mount.

 

[Trav]

Thanks. I will give that a go with the strut. I'm pretty sure the intermediate shaft was replaced a few years ago when the rack and pinion was replaced, but that's probably the next thing on my list if it's not the strut/mount.

If it was replaced hopefully they used an OE part, also on some cars if the underbody shield or part of it is missing that can cause the small U joints to rust and bind. If it is gone see if you can find a low mile used one if new OE is high priced, I see some of them north of $400.

 

[mojoe]

If it was replaced hopefully they used an OE part, also on some cars if the underbody shield or part of it is missing that can cause the small U joints to rust and bind. If it is gone see if you can find a low mile used one if new OE is high priced, I see some of them north of $400.

Or, it might just be time for a new car!

 

[donald53]

Like @Trav said above...it sounds like the intermediate shaft. I have a 2005 Camry and my vehicle exhibited the same sounds you describe. Changed shaft and noise went away. It could also be the strut mount. I changed my original struts with KYB and am noticing noise coming from them when turning slowly and also when it is cold outside.

 

[D60]

If you think it's LF, elevate that side from the pinch weld. ASSuming it will make the noise when sitting still, compare LF weighted to unweighted. The strut bearings are essentially Torringtons (more or less) so they bear a great deal of weight when loaded and I'd expect the noise to change unweighted.

If you keep the RF on the ground, this still provides some degree of load on the power assist system and the intermediate shaft. As for the intermediate shaft, my mind doesn't go there 'cause we don't get rust here. It's lack-of-rust myopic vision!!

You may also be able to douse the top of the strut with penetrant through the hole in the strut tower. That said, it's unlikely any will make it into the bearing itself, and be prepared to explain this to shop #1 if you should try to get them to warranty their work.

 

[D60]

And if you really wanna get jiggy wit it you might be able to drill a tiny hole somewhere in the bearing and stick an aerosol can straw in there.

The idea is same as a squeaky door hinge: if you lubricate something and an otherwise reproducible noise vanishes, the culprit has been found! If you're careful with the depth of your hole it's very unlikely you'll cause any damage to the bearing that matters. The problem is that you may not be drilling anywhere near the rollers without first seeing a strut mount in-hand. If your FLAPS stocks one (unlikely for an '03), you could ask to fondle it at the counter -- legal in some states

 

[mojoe]

UPDATE: Asked my wife to turn the wheel while I listened from the outside to see if I could pinpoint the sound. I could barely hear it; really couldn't hear it at all with the hood raised and engine running. Asked my wife if she could hear it inside the car, and she said yes ..... but it's coming from the back.

Sure enough, I walked to the rear of the car, and the grinding creaking sound is obviously coming from the rear suspension. Much more noticeable when someone is actually sitting in the car.

So not only is my wife better looking, she's also smarter than me. I will keep you posted.