2002 Subaru Outback H6 Red Line 5w-30 10,197 miles

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
RL's 0W-20 (HTHSV 3.0cP)


What was the lab, and why would Red Line understate the HTHS viscosity of their 0W-20? They don't have any problem listing their 5W-20 at 3.3 cP.

 

[CATERHAM]

Then why would RL print the following on their 0W-20 bottle:

"Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s. Formulated to suit the requirement for ACEA A3, and B3/B4."

RL appears to be trying to "have it's cake and eating it to".

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dparm
Redline is not a good fit for this motor or driving style.

On top of that the wrong RL grade was used which happens virtually all the time when people try RL. The 3.8cP HTHSV RL 5W-30 is a robust, shear proof 40wt oil. RL's 0W-20 (HTHSV 3.0cP) would have been in line the the spec'd oil having a similar viscosity to the previous Valvoline 5W-30 and the current NAPA 5W-30.


I got the oil where I work, and we don't stock the 0w-20.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Then why would RL print the following on their 0W-20 bottle:

"Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s. Formulated to suit the requirement for ACEA A3, and B3/B4."


I wasn't aware that they did.

From their website:

0W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for small cars and hybrids, and some trucks like Honda Insight and Civic Hybrids, Toyota Solara, Camry, Rav4 and Tundra 5.7L, Venza
-Lightest passenger car motor oil available from Red Line
-Increased fuel economy and improved wear at cold start
-Better flow at extremely cold temperatures compared to 5W20
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=124&pcid=21

5W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for Chrysler, Ford WSS-M2C945-A, Acura/Honda, Mazda and Scion
-Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 5W30 or 10W30
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=1&pcid=21

 

[oggb]

That's a lot of silicon. Make sure the airbox is sealed well. If this has the square airbox with only two metal clips make sure the bottom tabs are pushed into their slots.

Heard of a lot of folks making that mistake.

 

[chevrofreak]

I had definitely made that mistake before, but I always check to make sure it is properly mated now. The new air filter is a Performax, which if it was a current production, is a Purolator, but it had a ridgid frame under the gasket that the Purolator branded one didn't have, so it may be a Fram.

Her air filters have always dirtied quickly for some reason. I think road dirt is being thrown up through the fender and getting sucked in. I want to upgrade to a foam element and/or add a pre-filter.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Then why would RL print the following on their 0W-20 bottle:
"Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s. Formulated to suit the requirement for ACEA A3, and B3/B4."

I wasn't aware that they did.
From their website:
0W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for small cars and hybrids, and some trucks like Honda Insight and Civic Hybrids, Toyota Solara, Camry, Rav4 and Tundra 5.7L, Venza
-Lightest passenger car motor oil available from Red Line
-Increased fuel economy and improved wear at cold start
-Better flow at extremely cold temperatures compared to 5W20
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=124&pcid=21

5W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for Chrysler, Ford WSS-M2C945-A, Acura/Honda, Mazda and Scion
-Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 5W30 or 10W30
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=1&pcid=21

If you want the most info' on any particular RL oil grade you won't find it on RL's website but on the actual bottle of oil.
Knowing this, I contacted RL to try a get a copy of the material printed on the back of the oil bottles of some 0W grades i was interested. I was told it's not available.
Consiquently, if you want to know the most from RL about any particular RL grade you'll need to get hold of a bottle first some how.
I don't have a copy of the 0W-20 bottle label but I do for their 0W-30 and 10W-30 grades. See below:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/md5XbCto6iUPOLzMw2YOYDMXqCsfUhvZU_0pMa1kvgU?feat=directlink

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Then why would RL print the following on their 0W-20 bottle:
"Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s. Formulated to suit the requirement for ACEA A3, and B3/B4."

I wasn't aware that they did.
From their website:
0W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for small cars and hybrids, and some trucks like Honda Insight and Civic Hybrids, Toyota Solara, Camry, Rav4 and Tundra 5.7L, Venza
-Lightest passenger car motor oil available from Red Line
-Increased fuel economy and improved wear at cold start
-Better flow at extremely cold temperatures compared to 5W20
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=124&pcid=21

5W20 Motor Oil
-Recommended for Chrysler, Ford WSS-M2C945-A, Acura/Honda, Mazda and Scion
-Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 5W30 or 10W30
-Recommended for API SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A5/B5
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=1&pcid=21

If you want the most info' on any particular RL oil grade you won't find it on RL's website but on the actual bottle of oil.
Knowing this, I contacted RL to try a get a copy of the material printed on the back of the oil bottles of some 0W grades i was interested. I was told it's not available.
Consiquently, if you want to know the most from RL about any particular RL grade you'll need to get hold of a bottle first some how.
I don't have a copy of the 0W-20 bottle label but I do for their 0W-30 and 10W-30 grades. See below:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/md5XbCto6iUPOLzMw2YOYDMXqCsfUhvZU_0pMa1kvgU?feat=directlink


I believe the text portion of their motor oil labels have been rewritten recently, my latest bottles of 5W-20 have more of a bullet format instead of that huge chunk of text. I'll take a pic later.

It's possible that the "thicker oil film" statement was simply a typo on the bottle of 0W-20. If they still have that statement on the bottles I would be surprised.

Also note that the 0W-30 label states "more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 10W-30s" while the 10W-30 label states "25% more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 10W-30s".

Are you sure the 0W-20 label didn't say, "Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-20s"?

 

[CATERHAM]

The 0W-20 bottle didn't say "thicker oil film" but rather "provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s", and yes the label definitely said 5W-30 not 5W-20.
But what's even more stange is the "ACEA A3, and B3/B4" claim which requires a HTHSV minimum of 3.5cP and we know that's not remotely the case.

The 0W-30 and 10W-30 bearing viscosity descriptions seems appropriate. The 10W-30's 25% more claim is in line. Assuming a 3.0cP -3.1cP HTHSV dino times 25% gives RL 10W-30's 3.8cP.

 

[Ben99GT]

It sounds to me like the 0W-20 labels had a couple typos, it would be interesting to see what they say now.

I should be ordering a case of 0W-20 for a 3.0 Duratec in the near future, I'll try to scan one of the labels.

 

[CATERHAM]

I don't think RL made a typo on their bottle when they stated their 0W-20 "provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5W-30s".
We already know it is heavier than ALL dino 5W-20's, with it's website HTHSV listing of at least 2.7cP. If there is a "typo" I'm inclined to believe it's on their website PDS.

I'd love to divulge the name of the Lab that tested the HTHSV of RL 0W-20 and came up with a value of 3.0cP but I can't since I didn't pay for the info'.
If you want to pay the lab in question (and it is a very reputable lab), PM me and I will provide you with my source and you can contact them directly.

 

[Ben99GT]

I would love for that lab to be right, but I see no reason for Red Line of all companies to understate the HTHS viscosity of one of their oils.

Regarding a typo on their website, it would also have to be a typo on their motor oil PDS: http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Motor Oil Product Data.pdf

 

[CATERHAM]

If I recall you initially suggested the possibility of a "typo" to explain the literature on the actual 0W-20 bottle which makes no sense to me as I explained previously.

I wish the lab wasn't right as I have more use for a light ester based 20wt oil and I did question the result. But the reliability of the lab' and the people that reviewed the results convinced me that there wasn't a mistake.
It's been about a year since I learned of it and I know of two people who upon my suggestion are now running it in cars equipped with OP gauges. One guy was running M1 5W-30 and he has noticed no drop in OP. The other in a Honda who was running a 5W-20 noticed a significant increase in OP.
It's just more evidence to me that RL 0W-20 is more of a light 30wt than a mid-grade 20wt in terms of operational viscosity.