2001 2.3L Ranger, M1 5w-20 EP with 8,000 miles

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aaviationkid

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I bought this truck last august with I believe 75,000 miles on it and have since put on around 12,000 miles or so. My first oil change was just with normal Motorcraft Synthetic blend but then I decided to start using the M1 EP with first a Bosch filter for 5,000 miles then I changed it to a Motorcraft filter. So far I'm at 8,000 miles roughly and I'll run another 2,000 before I change it.
hsnfl.jpg
 
I guess you've have to take Blackstone's suggestion over Mobil 1's claim seeing as the analysis is specific to you're use! I'm curious because I just bought M1 EP 5w30 and planned on a 15k mi/1yr OCI. Maybe I'll end up doing and UOA before 10k just to check.
It sounds like you're changing the filter still around 5k though, right? That's something I wasn't sure of seeing as the oil goes longer.
 
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Yeah I ran 5k on the M1 filter and then changed the filter to the OEM one. When I changed the filter I just pulled the old one off, primed the new one and just had to add a little bit of fresh oil to bring the level back to normal.

I did the UOA just to see how true M1's words were to me particular engine and from now on I'll probably run the EP with the filter change at 5K and then change the oil and filter at 10k.
 
Not to confuse the right thing to do with 15k guarantees - If this is your first M1 EP oil change after years of dino it should not be maximum length because it will be a dirty cleanup run. Subsequent fills can go longer and longer. So in regards to your UOA, looks pretty good. Any elevated levels can be attributed to an extended dirty first run. A subsequent UOA should prove this.

Here's why I say this. Read the Mobil 1 High Mileage product data sheet below. M1 HM is M1 full syn with a HM add pack. So its a 10k oil. But because its designated for cars with high miles, the instructions are to start off short, get longer and longer as the engine cleans up. The same would apply to an older engine running M1 EP. M1 EP as a strong detergent pack of its own. M1 EP does not have these instructions, because the assumption is from new, newer, etc.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENPVLMOMobil_1_High_Mileage_Oil.aspx
 
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Originally Posted By: aaviationkid
Yeah I ran 5k on the M1 filter and then changed the filter to the OEM one. When I changed the filter I just pulled the old one off, primed the new one and just had to add a little bit of fresh oil to bring the level back to normal.

I did the UOA just to see how true M1's words were to me particular engine and from now on I'll probably run the EP with the filter change at 5K and then change the oil and filter at 10k.


Assuming your engine is very clean there is no need to change out the filter during a 10K OCI. In fact I use the MC filters now and they seem to be fine.
 
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Wear metals look good, but if TBN is down to 2.8, I'd say you've reached the limit of this oil in your use.
Time for a change.
If you do run another 2K, I'd be curious as to what a UOA would look like.
I think you'll see sharply higher wear metals, since this oil looks to be pretty well done at 8K.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Wear metals look good, but if TBN is down to 2.8, I'd say you've reached the limit of this oil in your use.
Time for a change.
If you do run another 2K, I'd be curious as to what a UOA would look like.
I think you'll see sharply higher wear metals, since this oil looks to be pretty well done at 8K.


I'm not so sure about that. See Mobil's response to Tbn with the newer SA oils. It could potentially stay at 2 for 10,000 more miles and show no signs of oxidation.
 
I personally wouldn't, but check out Buster's post.
I don't know that I'd agree with the proposition that TBN could stay at 2 for another 10K, and I would wonder about TAN, but who really knows without a UOA to prove it?
 
True.

Link

It's really a matter of trust no matter which company you're buying from. I was glad to recently see XOM respond to that Tbn question. That's is their opinion of course.

They also claim they test their oils out to 20k+ miles and a recent article said they make up to 500 blends a month. A bit of confidence booster I guess.
 
Changing out oil too soon is a waste. Why spend all that money on an expensive lube, and then pay $35 for a UOA, to then ignore the data and dump oil too soon?

Does one put down the beer and grab another one, just because he can see he's nearing the bottom with 2.8oz left in a 12oz can?

I'll make a wild guess estimate that the M1EP started with TBN of 9? So, you're only about 2/3 the way down the scale. Why would you throw away perfectly good product with life left in it?

Blackstone recommends TBN to be no lower than 1.0 on their scale. Being that your TBN is at 2.8, you have PLENTY of life left in that lube. 10k miles is doable; probably more.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Changing out oil too soon is a waste. Why spend all that money on an expensive lube, and then pay $35 for a UOA, to then ignore the data and dump oil too soon?

Does one put down the beer and grab another one, just because he can see he's nearing the bottom with 2.8oz left in a 12oz can?

I'll make a wild guess estimate that the M1EP started with TBN of 9? So, you're only about 2/3 the way down the scale. Why would you throw away perfectly good product with life left in it?

Blackstone recommends TBN to be no lower than 1.0 on their scale. Being that your TBN is at 2.8, you have PLENTY of life left in that lube. 10k miles is doable; probably more.


Agree with the TBN. Busters link above has a reply from XOM. They state:

"As for TBN retention, it is only a single parameter that provides an indication of the used oil condition. A reduction in TBN is an indication that the overbased detergent is doing its job by neutralizing acids that form as a result of combustion. TBN should be used in combination with other used oil parameters such as oxidation, nitration, TAN (Total Acid Number), ICP metals, D4684 MRV viscosity, and D445 kinematic viscosity to determine the overall condition of the used oil."

So, its well within spec, and even if it were close, its not necessarily a danger.

My only issue was stated in prior post. I don't agree with extending the first synthetic OCI after years of dino, and gave the reason why. XOM thinks so too.
 
That's all well and true.
However, we don't know TAN, we don't know oxidation and we don't know nitration in this sample.
All we actually know is remaining TBN.
Polaris would have at least given oxidation and nitration at no additional charge, although not TAN.
Knowing only TBN and seeing that TBN has declined to not a great deal more than the 2.0 most of us would consider a reasonable margin, I'd not run the OP's vehicle too much over 8K on the oil used.
For all we know, TAN is at a point where the remaining TBN will decline very rapidly.
It may not be, but based upon the information available, I don't think that we can recommend much more than the 8K the OP ran the oil.
 
I'm hoping the truck was always atleast ran on a synthetic blend because 5w-20 is only available as a blend or pure synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: aaviationkid
I'm hoping the truck was always atleast ran on a synthetic blend because 5w-20 is only available as a blend or pure synthetic.



What?????

5w-20 is available (and has been for some time) with conventional base stocks.
 
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Woah calm down there, I simply have never seen it in a store and never took the time to look around the internet for it.
 
Originally Posted By: aaviationkid
Woah calm down there, I simply have never seen it in a store and never took the time to look around the internet for it.


Conventional 5w-20 has been sitting right next to all the other conventional lubes for several years. The fact that you have not seen it does not change the reality. Further, was it your implication that (because of your perception that 5w-20 was at least a semi-syn or full syn) that the engine was somehow "better" protected than the option of a dino lube? What OCI and maintenance history is known of this truck you bought?

Regardless, you paid for expensive lube that comes with a 15k mile provision, and then you paid for a UOA. Are you going to ignore the data, and expenses, and continue on your current path? Or, are you going to make an informed decision and extend the OCI in an attempt to reach ROI?
 
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