I have heard from some old timers that they put a mix of about 100 to 1 in their old engines as a UCL. In older bikes without fuel injection and cat converters, would this actually help? I have an old Suzuki and a ton of 2 stroke oil around for air cooled engines.
2 stroke oil as a UCL?
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Yes, just don't over-do it. A couple ounces per fill up should be enough to get it done.
Yeah I have a bunch that are pre filled for a 50:1 mix per gallon of gas. My tank is a little over 2 gallons so I would be running a little over a 100:1 mix
The normal mix for a 4-stroke engine using TCW-3 as a UCL is 1-oz. per 5-gallons. More or less doesn't do any better. Some including myself have seen a slight gain in mpg, but just having a UCL is important to me as dry as the gasoline is today. Also, with the additives in 2-stroke oil, it's possible to see some cleaining take place - although not as quickly as a product meant for cleaning. That is just a mild side benefit.
I tried increasing and dosage myself and noticed no gains whatsoever - but experimentation is the key.
Rob
I tried increasing and dosage myself and noticed no gains whatsoever - but experimentation is the key.
Rob
I've used it for about a year in my 2006 Kawasaki 500. I use the 1 oz. to 5 gallons of gas formula, and it does seem to improve gas mileage a tiny bit. I think it also helps prevent corrosion in your gas tank, which is often a motorcycle problem. I use an old Stabil bottle (the small size) to store some on the motorcycle and to measure out small amounts. On my cycle I frequently use 1/2 oz. for a 2.5 gallon fill up.
Originally Posted By: Scooter_man
just having a UCL is important to me as dry as the gasoline is today. Also, with the additives in 2-stroke oil, it's possible to see some cleaining take place - although not as quickly as a product meant for cleaning. That is just a mild side benefit.
Rob
Yeah, 2-strokes never have carbon build-up from burning oil with gasoline, and you know that the manufacturers aren't aware of "dry" gasoline and don't use valve guides that are designed for lack of upper cylinder lubricant in gasoline. I mean, how long ago did they remove lead from gasoline? Surely, after 30 years nobody has realized that valve guides and seats have to specially designed for unleaded gasoline.
Carry on........
just having a UCL is important to me as dry as the gasoline is today. Also, with the additives in 2-stroke oil, it's possible to see some cleaining take place - although not as quickly as a product meant for cleaning. That is just a mild side benefit.
Rob
Yeah, 2-strokes never have carbon build-up from burning oil with gasoline, and you know that the manufacturers aren't aware of "dry" gasoline and don't use valve guides that are designed for lack of upper cylinder lubricant in gasoline. I mean, how long ago did they remove lead from gasoline? Surely, after 30 years nobody has realized that valve guides and seats have to specially designed for unleaded gasoline.
Carry on........
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Yeah, and most people aren't using UCLs for valve seat/guide protection in the first place.
Most are using for better ring seal, and ... well ... upper cylinder lubrication really.
Carry on......
So, are you saying that the oil from the crankcase doesn't reach the rings? I thought that was the reason for the oil control rings -- to keep the oil OUT of the combustion chamber.
I'm lost, if you don't need additional valve seat/guide lubrication, why are you trying to lubricate the combustion chamber? There is oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the rings, plus the rings are made of very hard and tough metal, what's the point? I take high mileage engines apart all the time and still see "cross-hatch" marks on the cylinder indicating minimal wear in the cylinders. Why would you want more carbon build-up from burning oil and get no additional benefit.
I think this is a non-issue. The manufacturers know much more about the needs of the engines they design, and they don't recommend an upper cylinder lubricant. why do you?
"Because I can....."
Yeah, and most people aren't using UCLs for valve seat/guide protection in the first place.
Most are using for better ring seal, and ... well ... upper cylinder lubrication really.
Carry on......
So, are you saying that the oil from the crankcase doesn't reach the rings? I thought that was the reason for the oil control rings -- to keep the oil OUT of the combustion chamber.
I'm lost, if you don't need additional valve seat/guide lubrication, why are you trying to lubricate the combustion chamber? There is oil on the cylinder walls to lubricate the rings, plus the rings are made of very hard and tough metal, what's the point? I take high mileage engines apart all the time and still see "cross-hatch" marks on the cylinder indicating minimal wear in the cylinders. Why would you want more carbon build-up from burning oil and get no additional benefit.
I think this is a non-issue. The manufacturers know much more about the needs of the engines they design, and they don't recommend an upper cylinder lubricant. why do you?
"Because I can....."
I don't know that manufacturers care much about engine longevity beyond the warranty period. A little planned obsolescence is in their best interests. We all know that engines will last a lot longer than the warranty period with minimal maintenance. For example, few OEM oils or filters are as good as readily available aftermarket versions, but you can probably get by with the cheapest products that meet spec. and you'll reach the warranty. Is UCL necessary? No. Is there evidence that it provides better performance than gas alone. Yes, there is quite a bit. Is the evidence conclusive? I haven't seen it if it exists.
Basically, if it works for you - then use a UCL. If you notice no difference at all, then stop using one. I have noticed a positive change in all of my vehicles using MMO or TCW-3 as a UCL therefore I will continue to use one.
No one is forcing anyone, and everybody has a different view/opinion here. That's fine, it's what makes the world go around.
For some it may be a non-issue. For me, it's definately an issue. Guess what? My choice! My money spent! Despite what evidence someone might be able to come up with, I will continue to use a UCL as many others on here will.
Not everyone is going to see things the way one person might see things - and no post on here is going to change the masses. There is no point in arguing about things like this and no reason to try to make all topics seem so negative. I have better things to do with my time.
In the end, if the small amount of money I spend on a UCL makes me feel better and I see a positve result - then what is it going to hurt?
BTW, the small amount of TCW-3 used in this application is not enough to cause a carbon build-up or foul plugs. No where even close. This happens in 2-strokes, but a 32:1 or 40:1 ratio is much much different than 400:1 or 500:1 ratio talked about here. And that is all it takes to create a positive change.
Rob
No one is forcing anyone, and everybody has a different view/opinion here. That's fine, it's what makes the world go around.
For some it may be a non-issue. For me, it's definately an issue. Guess what? My choice! My money spent! Despite what evidence someone might be able to come up with, I will continue to use a UCL as many others on here will.
Not everyone is going to see things the way one person might see things - and no post on here is going to change the masses. There is no point in arguing about things like this and no reason to try to make all topics seem so negative. I have better things to do with my time.
In the end, if the small amount of money I spend on a UCL makes me feel better and I see a positve result - then what is it going to hurt?
BTW, the small amount of TCW-3 used in this application is not enough to cause a carbon build-up or foul plugs. No where even close. This happens in 2-strokes, but a 32:1 or 40:1 ratio is much much different than 400:1 or 500:1 ratio talked about here. And that is all it takes to create a positive change.
Rob
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Yeah I am using this in a bike designed in the era of leaded gas. Its a 69 Honda CB750 with a 1080cc big bore kit in it.
Originally Posted By: Zedhed
Yeah, 2-strokes never have carbon build-up from burning oil with gasoline,
Well not never,but not as much as you would expect.I pulled my DT230 down at 35,000km (for main bearings and piston,caused by faulty crank seal)and there was just a film of carbon on the piston,head and powervalve,easily cleaned off.It had an expansion chamber and welded muffler,the muffler was original,and I just put it back on.For a 40hp 225cc engine that is a pretty good run,a 4 stroke of the same capacity not making as much power would have had the same job done several times,and I doubt if you would class them as a street bike like mine was.The previous owner used Yamalube,I used Castrol TTS or Silkolene.
After buying too much 2 stroke oil and then selling my 2 stroke bikes (but before I got the DT230),I used the case up in my diesel Pajero,half a litre (quart) bottle to a 92 litre tank.At 300,000km I sent the injector pump in for a rebuild,and was told there was nothing wrong with it,just new seals and calibration.At those mileages a Kiki pump is normally pretty worn....I doubt it was the 2 stroke,but I can say it was if I want to.
Yeah, 2-strokes never have carbon build-up from burning oil with gasoline,
Well not never,but not as much as you would expect.I pulled my DT230 down at 35,000km (for main bearings and piston,caused by faulty crank seal)and there was just a film of carbon on the piston,head and powervalve,easily cleaned off.It had an expansion chamber and welded muffler,the muffler was original,and I just put it back on.For a 40hp 225cc engine that is a pretty good run,a 4 stroke of the same capacity not making as much power would have had the same job done several times,and I doubt if you would class them as a street bike like mine was.The previous owner used Yamalube,I used Castrol TTS or Silkolene.
After buying too much 2 stroke oil and then selling my 2 stroke bikes (but before I got the DT230),I used the case up in my diesel Pajero,half a litre (quart) bottle to a 92 litre tank.At 300,000km I sent the injector pump in for a rebuild,and was told there was nothing wrong with it,just new seals and calibration.At those mileages a Kiki pump is normally pretty worn....I doubt it was the 2 stroke,but I can say it was if I want to.
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