1969 Nova with a 502 Big Block that runs 12.4 Q-mi

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I'm guessing that the car was basically painted and a "crate motor" was dropped in, and then run a few times at the track. Now if it was raced every week and adjustments were made to fine tune the timing, shift points, gears, tire pressure, launch rpm, engine temps, fuel types etc etc, then you could easily bring it to the mid 11's. What gears are in it?

For a quick example, my old 78 Grand Am with a basically stock 400 started out running mid 14's, but after a few weeks of timing and rejetting we got it to the low 12's. Crate motors are great but they're not perfect- they still could use some fine tuning to match the rear axle ratio and weight of the vehicle.
 
gto78 -
Low 12s with a stock 1978 Grand Am 400 ci?
Better call the guys with highly modified ones that are slower and tell them they wasted their money!
 
I wouldn't call crate motors great. There was a guy on a the local Mustang board who dropped that 502 crate into a Mustang and it was a high 11 second ride from what I recall (11.8) on full slicks with a built tranny. I also thought the swap was disgusting but anyway.

OP: For comparison, my buddy's '85 Mustang GT ran an easy 12.2@115 un-tuned with a mild 302 on street tires in the hands of the previous owner.

As far as oil? Run whatever GM says to run in it. With the MPH it is turning-in, it isn't very high power density; likely would be just hunky-dory on 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: gto78
I'm guessing that the car was basically painted and a "crate motor" was dropped in, and then run a few times at the track. Now if it was raced every week and adjustments were made to fine tune the timing, shift points, gears, tire pressure, launch rpm, engine temps, fuel types etc etc, then you could easily bring it to the mid 11's. What gears are in it?

For a quick example, my old 78 Grand Am with a basically stock 400 started out running mid 14's, but after a few weeks of timing and rejetting we got it to the low 12's. Crate motors are great but they're not perfect- they still could use some fine tuning to match the rear axle ratio and weight of the vehicle.


You are DARN close, my Port Saint Lucie friend, I am in Jacksonville. Rolling shell purchased, 502 Crate dropped in
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.. Thing is, the paint looked SWEET! That HAD to be about a $5000 or better Paint job. The "Gearing" is a Hurst "Four on the Floor" it is NOT the "Three-on-the-tree..." Narrow Rear-end.

I believe this was from one of its first runs, always something acting up on it. Has roll cage, raced at Englishtown, up in NJ. In summer, too. Have a pic of nice rear-end squat off the line.. They must be sent to me.

Its not "Slow" its just "Not as fast as it can be" and we know this. 442s even run "Hard 9's" if all the way built up...........

Last i saw it, he was talking with two other guys about a "Busted Weld." He runs a Welding shop. The car is his Toy. Also has full interior and radio, and drives on street w cheater slicks, loud exhaust.

This car has NJ "QQ Historic" Plates. You need to do something to get those. This car is a rare one, NJ people surely know more about it, but it never has to be inspected again.

Good insight. Maybe its been tuned to 11s.. because its as fast as old standard Lamborghinis, it takes a special model Exotic to beat this "Slow Nova"
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Quote:
I wouldn't call crate motors great. There was a guy on a the local Mustang board who dropped that 502 crate into a Mustang and it was a high 11 second ride from what I recall (11.8) on full slicks with a built tranny. I also thought the swap was disgusting but anyway.

OP: For comparison, my buddy's '85 Mustang GT ran an easy 12.2@115 un-tuned with a mild 302 on street tires in the hands of the previous owner.

As far as oil? Run whatever GM says to run in it. With the MPH it is turning-in, it isn't very high power density; likely would be just hunky-dory on 5w30.


No idea the Oil or ECM or anything like that. Ive never heard back and no pics as of yet.
frown.gif


.... now Do me a favor, and PUNCH your friend that put a GM engine in a Mustang. Make it count. I want him to go to sleep for a minute or so. Thank you.
 
That guy is no friend of mine, LOL!! But he IS a friend of the guy my buddy Nate bought his '85 from. Real clean car too!

If your uncle is genuine about going fast, put him in touch with Jay Allen from Camshaft Innovations. That man works magic. And it is one of his bumpsticks that runs that little 302 in Nate's car. Should be close to a 120Mph trapping car when we are finished setting it up. Not bad for a stock shortblock 302 and some OOTB TrickFlow heads, LOL!
 
Overkill, that ET and trap do not jive with genuine street rubber.

Post the sixty foot time and I'll bet he was on 'street legal' drag radials!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Overkill, that ET and trap do not jive with genuine street rubber.

Post the sixty foot time and I'll bet he was on 'street legal' drag radials!


I saw the tires. They were sitting beside the car when we came to pick it up. 60ft was around the 2.0 second mark IIRC. They were NOT ET Street Drag Radials or BFG GeForce series tires (I know that's what you were thinking).

I ran ET street radials on my car; they would hook like a slick when warmed up. Awesome tire.

These were plain old BFG Comp tires mounted on a 15" Weld Draglite rim. Tires were a 275 IIRC. Yes, wide. And the car has southside lower control arms to help with traction and full drag shocks (lakewood 50/50's and 90/10's). But it was definitely done on street rubber.
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Right. He ran a 12.2 with a 2 1/2 second red light.


Look at the MPH. The car is obviously putting down the power. It is called a "combo that works". Something crate motors often don't do.

It is a light car (2,900lbs) with a very healthy 302 backed but a regular 'ol T5 with a King Cobra clutch and 4.10's out back. It is a mild combo that makes very good power and subsequently, lays down some very good times.

I take no credit for putting it together but have had the immense pleasure of working on it a lot in the past few months. The previous owner did the suspension and chassis, Jay Allen spec'd the rest of the combo (except the owner used the wrong intake) and supplied the camshaft. The car works VERY well.

Not trying to hijack, but here's an underhood taken in my driveway when we were doing the carb:

Nates85hp750.jpg


Here is it being towed home behind my Expedition:

natestang01.jpg


And the rear-end with the tires that he used at the track on it:

natestang03.jpg
 
All GM 502s use low tension oil rings...so stay away from thinner oils if you don't want an excessive oil burner. I'd run M1 15W50 in it if it were mine. I've had much success (meaning I never blew up an engine) when I ran M1 15W50 in high performance "old school" Chevy SBs and BBs.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Hounddog is right, That 12.4/109 is DOG slow. Back to the pits with it. A street 350 mouse with a TH350 can run those numbers in a Nova.
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Shouldnt be harsh, since I never seen it run, so maybe it just need more tire ....
Ever try to hook up a lightweight Nova with a torque monster BB? They're a handful even with a auto and a real bear with a 4spd. At a minimum, unless you run real sticky DOT tires (or slicks) and Caltracs, you'll never realize the full potential of the car.
 
Originally Posted By: pavelow
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Hounddog is right, That 12.4/109 is DOG slow. Back to the pits with it. A street 350 mouse with a TH350 can run those numbers in a Nova.
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Shouldnt be harsh, since I never seen it run, so maybe it just need more tire ....
Ever try to hook up a lightweight Nova with a torque monster BB? They're a handful even with a auto and a real bear with a 4spd. At a minimum, unless you run real sticky DOT tires (or slicks) and Caltracs, you'll never realize the full potential of the car.


The MPH is low however, indicating somewhat poor (for the size of the engine) power output. 109Mph is around 300HP in a 3,000lb car IIRC.
 
I don't know about the car's qtr mile performance but the engine that was pictured is a 502 ramjet with 502HP and 500 ft-lbs torque. It's a street performance motor but still pretty stout.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't know about the car's qtr mile performance but the engine that was pictured is a 502 ramjet with 502HP and 500 ft-lbs torque. It's a street performance motor but still pretty stout.


I'm thinking the car doesn't have the RAMJET version and isn't tuned correctly. As the MPH indicates performance no where near 500HP.
 
There's no telling which 502 it really has or what its issues might be. Most of the 502s are rated at 502 HP even if they're not the ramjet, but there is also I think a 450 HP version and an even lower HP truck version. If it doesn't have aluminum heads then it's probably not a 502 HP version.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
There's no telling which 502 it really has or what its issues might be. Most of the 502s are rated at 502 HP even if they're not the ramjet, but there is also I think a 450 HP version and an even lower HP truck version. If it doesn't have aluminum heads then it's probably not a 502 HP version.


True enough. Maybe we'll know more when he hears back from his uncle.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The MPH is low however, indicating somewhat poor (for the size of the engine) power output. 109Mph is around 300HP in a 3,000lb car IIRC.


Thanks for 'splaining' the Stang to me. It's not often I hear of someone who can drive their car, as that owner can.

Just for reference, my 1970 LS6 Chevelle ran 13.3x's at 106-109 mph stock on street rubber with 4 speed/3.73 gears. Curb weight unknown, I bet it was close to 3500 pounds. I never got it under 13 even after a lot of practice (street tires sucked back then!)

This guys got the hook on that Nova, I'd just love to see some details of his timeslip to figure out the obvious discrepancies. He could easily be under 3000 pounds.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
There's no telling which 502 it really has or what its issues might be. Most of the 502s are rated at 502 HP even if they're not the ramjet, but there is also I think a 450 HP version and an even lower HP truck version. If it doesn't have aluminum heads then it's probably not a 502 HP version.


A DEAL IS A DEAL!! HERE ARE THE PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!

statueliberty.jpg

carinpark.jpg

newyork.jpg


Glad to see these pics.

Quote:
'm thinking the car doesn't have the RAMJET version and isn't tuned correctly. As the MPH indicates performance no where near 500HP.


EDIT: As i remember it, the engine looked EXACTLY the same as that 502 WITHOUT it being a RAMJET that was the most resembling pic I could find. Confirmed 502, however as the quote said, probably without a RAMJET.

Extensive custom fabrication went into this car, my Uncle made it in his spare/slow time in the welding shop and it has the narrow rear-end. (WIDE Tires, that DONT stick out. They ARE wide!) Crossmembers, 6-pt Roll Cage, etc. Full leather interior, with Radio. HUGE Whiteface RPM gauge. No UPDATED Q-mi times............. though its seen a few Track days w Stangs and Trans Ams built up w the huge RAM-AIR hoods, etc. Held its own, never fastest though.
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(And yeah the Mustang would whoop. Someone he knows has a Fox-body Stang liek that. LX not GT.. Still though, he raced it! More power to him.)

Maybe it does need "More Tire" OR there were traction issues.. Or maybe he just needs real sticky Slicks? Sounds like a "Spins the tires." Its GOT to be about 500HP if it is running right, yes? *My Uncle says it was rated at 500HP but perhaps he was talking about the engine, not the car on a Dyno.

And again, was there last month.. talking with two other guys about a "Failed weld." - ?
 
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I'm thinking he needs to get it tuned. 500HP should put him deep in the 11's on some rubber with a MPH in the neighbourhood of 120. The MPH is the real teller here. ET is all about traction and driver. Mph is the teller as far as how much power it is making.
 
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