I realized for side markers 194 bulbs are just OK. But I rewired my harness a little so that they also act as turn signals. It works at night, but during the day, it doesn't add anything. Kind of a disappointment. I was looking at 194 LEDs. I figured in the application it would work fine, take some of my extra load off the turn signal circuit, but I realized while I was looking at LEDs they are polarity sensitive. In order for them to work as I have them set up, they cannot be polarity sensitive. Anybody have any suggestions?
194 bulbs.
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You could use a bridge rectifier to operate the Leds and then they become polarity insensitive.
You will drop 1.2v thru the rectifier but it is not a big issue.
You will drop 1.2v thru the rectifier but it is not a big issue.
Ooooh, I like. Thats a good idea. Ill have to keep that in mind.
What color are the lenses on your side markers and what color LED's did you get?
I have not bought any LEDs yet. I wanted to make sure they would work. Clear.
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
but I realized while I was looking at LEDs they are polarity sensitive. In order for them to work as I have them set up, they cannot be polarity sensitive. Anybody have any suggestions?
LEDs themselves (by their vary nature) are polarity sensitive. However, not all LED modules are polarity sensitive, as this depends upon the driving circuit built into the LED module.
For example, in my own LED conversions, I've had very good luck with the 6-LED (194 replacement) "WLED-xHP6" (where x varies with module light color). They run around $5/each from superbrightleds.com, and in my experience are noticeably brighter than stock 194 bulbs (like all LED conversions, get the modules that match the light color to the car LENs color you are putting them behind). And (while I can't find this detail on their web site) I seem to remember (that when I last installed them in a family car) they worked BOTH WAYS in the light sockets (which would imply that their driving circuit compensates for reverse polarity before feeding the power to the LEDs).
Of course, YMMV, but they may be "worth a shot". If nothing else, you could get one or two of them, and give them a try (as they aren't very expensive to purchase). In fact, two of these modules (either amber, or red, depending upon the color of your side-markers) + their cheapest shipping option, will only set you back around $15 total. So if they don't work as you like, you still haven't lost much.
FWIW: My Honda CRX came stock with it's front amber side-markers doubling as secondary turn signals. And yes, I did eventually replace those lights with the 6-LED "WLED-AHP6" modules (from superbrightleds.com) in both front amber side-markers. And IMHO those "side markers" are now bright enough that they now make more noticeable front "turn signals", during the brighter part of the day, than the actual (brighter, but not as close to eye level) real "turn signal" lights (in the front). So at least on my car, they work very well. But, of course, YMMV.
but I realized while I was looking at LEDs they are polarity sensitive. In order for them to work as I have them set up, they cannot be polarity sensitive. Anybody have any suggestions?
LEDs themselves (by their vary nature) are polarity sensitive. However, not all LED modules are polarity sensitive, as this depends upon the driving circuit built into the LED module.
For example, in my own LED conversions, I've had very good luck with the 6-LED (194 replacement) "WLED-xHP6" (where x varies with module light color). They run around $5/each from superbrightleds.com, and in my experience are noticeably brighter than stock 194 bulbs (like all LED conversions, get the modules that match the light color to the car LENs color you are putting them behind). And (while I can't find this detail on their web site) I seem to remember (that when I last installed them in a family car) they worked BOTH WAYS in the light sockets (which would imply that their driving circuit compensates for reverse polarity before feeding the power to the LEDs).
Of course, YMMV, but they may be "worth a shot". If nothing else, you could get one or two of them, and give them a try (as they aren't very expensive to purchase). In fact, two of these modules (either amber, or red, depending upon the color of your side-markers) + their cheapest shipping option, will only set you back around $15 total. So if they don't work as you like, you still haven't lost much.
FWIW: My Honda CRX came stock with it's front amber side-markers doubling as secondary turn signals. And yes, I did eventually replace those lights with the 6-LED "WLED-AHP6" modules (from superbrightleds.com) in both front amber side-markers. And IMHO those "side markers" are now bright enough that they now make more noticeable front "turn signals", during the brighter part of the day, than the actual (brighter, but not as close to eye level) real "turn signal" lights (in the front). So at least on my car, they work very well. But, of course, YMMV.
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I'm not sure how you have it wired that would make it so they can't be polarity sensitive? Does your polarity reverse on the socket depending where the power is coming from? I just can't picture this in my head.
Yeah. One leg is wired to parking lamp circuit, stock, and the other leg, which was the ground was moved onto the turn signal circuit. During the day + comes from the turn signal circuit and the bulb grounds through the parking lamp circuit, so they flash with the turn signal. At night they light by the parking circuit and ground through the turn signal circuit, when the turn signal lights it interrupts the ground and they flash off when the turn signal flashes on.
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
During the day + comes from the turn signal circuit and the bulb grounds through the parking lamp circuit, so they flash with the turn signal. At night they light by the parking circuit and ground through the turn signal circuit, when the turn signal lights it interrupts the ground and they flash off when the turn signal flashes on.
Hmmm... I have no idea if my CRX is wired the same way or not. But I can tell you I get the same behavior (that you are describing) out of my front amber running lights (i.e. they flash on when signaling with the lights off, but flash off when signaling with the lights on).
And, as I already mentioned, I'm using the amber version of those $4.95/each 6-LED modules (that look like a small circuit board) in that application without problems. So while I can't confirm that they will work in your application, it seems at least somewhat likely.
NOTE: There are other 194 replacement modules made by superbrightleds.com, so (if you do try these) be careful which you order. I was specifically talking about my experience with their $4.95/each "WLED-AHP6" model 6-LED modules, not with any of their other model 194 replacement LED modules.
During the day + comes from the turn signal circuit and the bulb grounds through the parking lamp circuit, so they flash with the turn signal. At night they light by the parking circuit and ground through the turn signal circuit, when the turn signal lights it interrupts the ground and they flash off when the turn signal flashes on.
Hmmm... I have no idea if my CRX is wired the same way or not. But I can tell you I get the same behavior (that you are describing) out of my front amber running lights (i.e. they flash on when signaling with the lights off, but flash off when signaling with the lights on).
And, as I already mentioned, I'm using the amber version of those $4.95/each 6-LED modules (that look like a small circuit board) in that application without problems. So while I can't confirm that they will work in your application, it seems at least somewhat likely.
NOTE: There are other 194 replacement modules made by superbrightleds.com, so (if you do try these) be careful which you order. I was specifically talking about my experience with their $4.95/each "WLED-AHP6" model 6-LED modules, not with any of their other model 194 replacement LED modules.
Sweet. I have to look into those. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
With 194 socketed LED's, just flip 180 degrees in the socket to get the correct polarity if they do not work the first time installed.
Obviously you haven't been reading the posts very carefully. The issue the OP (Onmo'Eegusee) has been bringing up, is that his lights are wired up in a way that the polarity (of the power) reverses some times. So he doesn't have the option per se of just switching the lights to the other orientation (because either orientation has the power in "the wrong direction" some of the time).
Which is why he was looking for a LED module that would work in either direction, as a way around this issue/problem. And as I mentioned those $4.95 6-LED modules appear to work that way, hopefully solving his problem.
In fact, I just want out to the garage a minute a go, and tried one of those modules (in this case a red one I had handy, but I'm assuming the amber one is built using the same design/circuit) in an easy to get to running light socket, and it properly lit BOTH WAYS (180 degrees apart from each other. So while that isn't proof that it will work for the OP (he'll have to risk a few dollars to buy one or two, and try them to see if they work), it at least makes it very plausible that those LED modules will work as he needs them to.
BTW: In theory I could have run this same experiment with my actual amber running/turn lights (with the actual amber modules, vs the red one I experimented on). However, those amber running/turn lights are a minor PITA to access (pop the hood, unscrew multiple things, before popping them out/in) that I didn't want to mess with it this morning. Instead, I just tried both (180 degree apart) light orientations (on a module that should be identical except for the LED color) in a much easier to get to running light in the back. And what I found was that the light worked both ways, as I had previously recalled that they did (whereas if these modules were power polarity sensitive, you would expect them to only light up on one of the two orientations, not both). So while this doesn't guarantee that they will work for the OP (in the end the day, the only way to know for sure is to buy them and try), these test results still seem to support the theory that these (fairly inexpensive) modules are likely to work in the OPs case.
With 194 socketed LED's, just flip 180 degrees in the socket to get the correct polarity if they do not work the first time installed.
Obviously you haven't been reading the posts very carefully. The issue the OP (Onmo'Eegusee) has been bringing up, is that his lights are wired up in a way that the polarity (of the power) reverses some times. So he doesn't have the option per se of just switching the lights to the other orientation (because either orientation has the power in "the wrong direction" some of the time).
Which is why he was looking for a LED module that would work in either direction, as a way around this issue/problem. And as I mentioned those $4.95 6-LED modules appear to work that way, hopefully solving his problem.
In fact, I just want out to the garage a minute a go, and tried one of those modules (in this case a red one I had handy, but I'm assuming the amber one is built using the same design/circuit) in an easy to get to running light socket, and it properly lit BOTH WAYS (180 degrees apart from each other. So while that isn't proof that it will work for the OP (he'll have to risk a few dollars to buy one or two, and try them to see if they work), it at least makes it very plausible that those LED modules will work as he needs them to.
BTW: In theory I could have run this same experiment with my actual amber running/turn lights (with the actual amber modules, vs the red one I experimented on). However, those amber running/turn lights are a minor PITA to access (pop the hood, unscrew multiple things, before popping them out/in) that I didn't want to mess with it this morning. Instead, I just tried both (180 degree apart) light orientations (on a module that should be identical except for the LED color) in a much easier to get to running light in the back. And what I found was that the light worked both ways, as I had previously recalled that they did (whereas if these modules were power polarity sensitive, you would expect them to only light up on one of the two orientations, not both). So while this doesn't guarantee that they will work for the OP (in the end the day, the only way to know for sure is to buy them and try), these test results still seem to support the theory that these (fairly inexpensive) modules are likely to work in the OPs case.
Cool. Thanks for your help DracoFelis. I think I will have to try a set of these.
Since I first saw this wiring scheme on a '71 Olds Cutlass I've rewired several cars. If you aren't using an amber 194 change to a 168 which is about 50% brighter.
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Originally Posted By: vweosdriver
If you aren't using an amber 194 change to a 168 which is about 50% brighter.
But even though they come with the same base, that extra light will come at the cost of slightly more power/watts and slightly more heat (as a result of the slightly higher watts). But that's only when you deal with traditional incandescent bulbs. If you are able to use a LED module, there really is no difference between the two, as both are small wedge "bulbs", so you use the same LED module either way.
And FWIW if you really want brightness (in your small "indicator" lights), my personal experience is that those $4.95 6-LED modules I've been talking about (when properly color matched to the car LENS, and thereby avoiding the light loss of colorizing white light), will actually give you more usable light then even a 168 bulb will, much less a 194. So as long as they actually work with the reverse power (like the OP and you are apparently doing), and we are hopeful they will (but the OP hasn't yet tried them to make sure), then IMHO those LED modules are probably a better choice for this application than the traditional 168 bulb is...
If you aren't using an amber 194 change to a 168 which is about 50% brighter.
But even though they come with the same base, that extra light will come at the cost of slightly more power/watts and slightly more heat (as a result of the slightly higher watts). But that's only when you deal with traditional incandescent bulbs. If you are able to use a LED module, there really is no difference between the two, as both are small wedge "bulbs", so you use the same LED module either way.
And FWIW if you really want brightness (in your small "indicator" lights), my personal experience is that those $4.95 6-LED modules I've been talking about (when properly color matched to the car LENS, and thereby avoiding the light loss of colorizing white light), will actually give you more usable light then even a 168 bulb will, much less a 194. So as long as they actually work with the reverse power (like the OP and you are apparently doing), and we are hopeful they will (but the OP hasn't yet tried them to make sure), then IMHO those LED modules are probably a better choice for this application than the traditional 168 bulb is...
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
I realized for side markers 194 bulbs are just OK. But I rewired my harness a little so that they also act as turn signals. It works at night, but during the day, it doesn't add anything. Kind of a disappointment. I was looking at 194 LEDs. I figured in the application it would work fine, take some of my extra load off the turn signal circuit, but I realized while I was looking at LEDs they are polarity sensitive. In order for them to work as I have them set up, they cannot be polarity sensitive. Anybody have any suggestions?
On my old car, when I got a new europeam spec bumper, I wired my fender turn signals to be the side markers also.
What I found to work was superbrightleds.com WLED-x6, which didn't have polarity.
I realized for side markers 194 bulbs are just OK. But I rewired my harness a little so that they also act as turn signals. It works at night, but during the day, it doesn't add anything. Kind of a disappointment. I was looking at 194 LEDs. I figured in the application it would work fine, take some of my extra load off the turn signal circuit, but I realized while I was looking at LEDs they are polarity sensitive. In order for them to work as I have them set up, they cannot be polarity sensitive. Anybody have any suggestions?
On my old car, when I got a new europeam spec bumper, I wired my fender turn signals to be the side markers also.
What I found to work was superbrightleds.com WLED-x6, which didn't have polarity.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
On my old car, when I got a new europeam spec bumper, I wired my fender turn signals to be the side markers also.
What I found to work was superbrightleds.com WLED-x6, which didn't have polarity.
Good to know! That not only gives a module style that is confirmed to work, it's one more indication that some of the superbrightleds modules are in fact able to handle polarity reverses!
OTOH the WLED-x6 (which their web site shows they are still selling BTW, so you can apparently still get that model if you want) is an older LED design that isn't nearly as bright as their newer WLED-xHP6 design (which uses the newer "high power" LEDs, that are much brighter than the older style LEDs). So if the WLED-xHP6 works (and my experience shows that it also isn't polarity sensitive), I would recommend going with those newer modules, than with he older (not as bright) LED module design (they also sell).
i.e. From my perspective, I find that I want LED modules that are at least as easy to see as stock bulbs, and preferably easier to see than stock bulbs. As a result, I think it's usually a good investment to get some of the brighter LED modules on the market, vs trying to save a small amount (initially) by getting dimmer LED modules.
And you generally don't get that level of light output in the older (very slightly cheaper) LED modules. Instead, you get that level of light output by buying the modules with the highest light rating for the job (not the ones that have been around the longest). In fact, in the case of superbrightleds, I've noticed that it's usually their newest models that are the brightest (often much brighter than their older designs). I suspect this is because LED efficiency (light output for power used) has been steadily going up over the last few years (as the LED industry has been doing a LOT of R&D in this area). So I guess it shouldn't be much of a surprise that as superbrightleds makes newer designs for their modules, they would tend to use the newer (more efficient) LEDs in those newer designs as well.
On my old car, when I got a new europeam spec bumper, I wired my fender turn signals to be the side markers also.
What I found to work was superbrightleds.com WLED-x6, which didn't have polarity.
Good to know! That not only gives a module style that is confirmed to work, it's one more indication that some of the superbrightleds modules are in fact able to handle polarity reverses!
OTOH the WLED-x6 (which their web site shows they are still selling BTW, so you can apparently still get that model if you want) is an older LED design that isn't nearly as bright as their newer WLED-xHP6 design (which uses the newer "high power" LEDs, that are much brighter than the older style LEDs). So if the WLED-xHP6 works (and my experience shows that it also isn't polarity sensitive), I would recommend going with those newer modules, than with he older (not as bright) LED module design (they also sell).
i.e. From my perspective, I find that I want LED modules that are at least as easy to see as stock bulbs, and preferably easier to see than stock bulbs. As a result, I think it's usually a good investment to get some of the brighter LED modules on the market, vs trying to save a small amount (initially) by getting dimmer LED modules.
And you generally don't get that level of light output in the older (very slightly cheaper) LED modules. Instead, you get that level of light output by buying the modules with the highest light rating for the job (not the ones that have been around the longest). In fact, in the case of superbrightleds, I've noticed that it's usually their newest models that are the brightest (often much brighter than their older designs). I suspect this is because LED efficiency (light output for power used) has been steadily going up over the last few years (as the LED industry has been doing a LOT of R&D in this area). So I guess it shouldn't be much of a surprise that as superbrightleds makes newer designs for their modules, they would tend to use the newer (more efficient) LEDs in those newer designs as well.
I did actually finally get a set of these. I will install them at work maybe and see what happens. It does say right on the packaging "non-polarized."
heh heh. Forgot about this post. They work GREAT! The same if not better brightness than the stock bulbs. You can tell where the LEDs are but it fills the stock reflector well.
not all leds are polarity sensitive some of the 194's you'll buy already have the bridge rectifier in them. I have side markers that I installed that light up with parking lights and flash with the turn signals, they are leds. Something to note leds are generally not as good at projecting light meaning while they appear more intense and bright, they actually throw less candle power or lumen's on the road. So if you are wanting the side markers for additional light they might disappoint as an led.
If you are wanting bright a good substitute is to change from a 194 to a 168, this will provide increased candle power with minimal gain in amperage.
If you are wanting bright a good substitute is to change from a 194 to a 168, this will provide increased candle power with minimal gain in amperage.
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