$18/g for Honda Type 2 dilluted coolant

[Audi Junkie]

What now?

2007 @ 48k

Was going to just drop 1 gallon out of the radiator and refresh, but I refuse to pay $18 for it. Redo with Peak Global?

 

[mechanicx]

You could go with PGL.If you can find it, it'd be the simplest route. I think Dexcool can be substituted for Honda type II as far as gasket/seals compatibility/life and being compatible with the type II, but I prefer the Havoline version followed by the Zerex and you have to keep an eye on the coolant level in the radiator. It needs to be kept full at all times. You might want to flush out all the old coolant and do a complete change over.

 

[nfs480]

You can order the blue here for $10.92:

http://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda-Anti-Freeze-Coolant-Type-2__0L999-9011.aspx

EDIT: With shipping it's probably only a good deal if you buy a few, so plan ahead for the next few changes.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
You could go with PGL.If you can find it, it'd be the simplest route. I think Dexcool can be substituted for Honda type II as far as gasket/seals compatibility/life and being compatible with the type II, but I prefer the Havoline version followed by the Zerex and you have to keep an eye on the coolant level in the radiator. It needs to be kept full at all times. You might want to flush out all the old coolant and do a complete change over.


That's the problem. It's nowhere to be found, not at Pep Boys, not at WM, not at Autozone ... May be at Napa stores or local specialty autopart stores

 

[HondaMan]

On a Honda, Peak Global Lifetime is a very good choice. I would however buy the product in a 50/50.
Honda has taken a stance that the premix is absolutely best in order to combat contamination.

I've run the Global with great sucess, however if the Blue Honda Type 2 is in fact the Blue G48 as many believe and as used in BMWs, then that fluid IMO cannot be beat.
I have a 96 BMW radiator to prove such that would still be in service today had I not runied the bleed valve outlet. That radiator had the fluid changed twice in 14 years... the inside was as clean as if it was new.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Should I forget about it?

At 3 years old.

 

[HondaMan]

I believe the first CI should be ~ 100k miles or above and there after, every 60k.

At your pace, I would change at the begining of the fifth or sixth year.

 

[mechanicx]

I think G48 has 2EHA and is sort of a silicated dexclone. 2EHA really isn't that bad if the coolng system is designed to be compatible, which a BMW obviously would be and a late model Japanese models somewhat. It protects against corrosion well. Honda type II (phosphate and sebacate) is slightly different from Dexcool and G48 (silicated).

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Should I forget about it?

At 3 years old.


I think if you are just doing radiator drain 3 years is time to do it, since you're not going to get all of the old coolant out. I know Honda says 10y/120K for first change and 5y/60k subsequently, but they mean a complete change and I just think 10 years is ridiculously too long. A full change every 5 years or at least 1 radiator drain every 2-3 years seems more reasonable.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think G48 has 2EHA and is sort of a silicated dexclone. 2EHA really isn't that bad if the coolng system is designed to be compatible, which a BMW obviously would be and a late model Japanese models somewhat. It protects against corrosion well. Honda type II (phosphate and sebacate) is slightly different from Dexcool and G48 (silicated).


Last time I bought it, G48 was about $25/gal in concentrated form at the BMW dealer. Probably cheaper where you are.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Should I forget about it?

At 3 years old.


I think if you are just doing radiator drain 3 years is time to do it, since you're not going to get all of the old coolant out. I know Honda says 10y/120K for first change and 5y/60k subsequently, but they mean a complete change and I just think 10 years is ridiculously too long. A full change every 5 years or at least 1 radiator drain every 2-3 years seems more reasonable.

Honda wants you to drain the radiator and engine block at 10/120k.

Then it wants you to perform the same service every 5/60k thereafter because you do not remove all of the coolant if you follow their service procedure.

Coolant does not need to replace that often unless your vehicle has a reputation for cooling system issues. I would not even consider it until 100k at the earliest. However, instead of just replacing the coolant at 100k, I would consider a complete cooling system rebuild-- radiator, water pump, all hoses, radiator cap and thermostat. I have personally seen a lot of cars with just over 100k that have been overheated due to cooling system leaks, and a preemptive cooling system rebuild would have saved them.

 

[mechanicx]

I know what Honda recommends and that they recommended draining the radiator and block. That might not get all of the old coolant out but it gets most of it out. It's just more reason to not go 10y/120k miles for the fist drain. What I was saying is if you only drain the radiator once then you are getting even less of the old out and need to drain it more frequently. I don't particular agree with their recommendations, just like I don't necesarily always agree with recommended ATF change intervals and to a lesser extent OCIs. I think 5 y/60K-100k miles is more sensible.

Changing the T-stat and hoses around the 10/100k mile mark or whenever they start showing signs of deteriation isn't a bad idea, but I'm more of the school of examining things and changing things like waterpumps and radiators only when needed. There's plenty of 20 year old radiators in perfect shape.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I know what Honda recommends and that they recommended draining the radiator and block. That might not get all of the old coolant out but it gets most of it out. It's just more reason to not go 10y/120k miles for the fist drain. What I was saying is if you only drain the radiator once then you are getting even less of the old out and need to drain it more frequently. I don't particular agree with their recommendations, just like I don't necesarily always agree with recommended ATF change intervals and to a lesser extent OCIs. I think 5 y/60K-100k miles is more sensible.

Changing the T-stat and hoses around the 10/100k mile mark or whenever they start showing signs of deteriation isn't a bad idea, but I'm more of the school of examining things and changing things like water pumps and radiators only when needed. There's plenty of 20 year old radiators in perfect shape.


10 years old 110,000+ miles E430 has all original OEM cooling system.

16 years old 250,000+ miles LS400 has original OEM radiators in perfect shape, just changed upper radiator hose few months ago along with T-stat, temperature sender, fan belt and belt tensionner.

6 years old 30,000+ miles S2000 has all original OEM cooling system, including coolant fluid. I will not flush the coolant until it is 10 years old. I'll use Preston T-flush to flush with garden hose and probably Global Lifetime fluid if I can find it, otherwise G05.

 

[mechanicx]

Sure you can stretch it to 10 years with OAT coolant but the coolant genrally starts degraded after about 5 years. It might not show up in the radiator and you might have to take the engine half apart or have the coolant analyzed to see the detioriation, but the idea is to change it before it starts.

If I were changing the coolant in a Japanese car I would just drain both the block and radiator. Maybe if I were trying to stretch the change interval to the limit or the coolant has been in there a long time, I might drain the radiator and block and refill with distilled water and drain again. The problem with a T-flush is you are going to be left with a lot of tap water in the system and then you're probably going to have to use a non-OEM concentrate coolant. which by the way are rated for 5 year service life, yet there's no good reasons to believe they would have a shorter service life than Asian formula. that's the way I see and I don't care what anyone else thinks.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Should I forget about it?

At 3 years old.


I think if you are just doing radiator drain 3 years is time to do it, since you're not going to get all of the old coolant out. I know Honda says 10y/120K for first change and 5y/60k subsequently, but they mean a complete change and I just think 10 years is ridiculously too long. A full change every 5 years or at least 1 radiator drain every 2-3 years seems more reasonable.

Honda wants you to drain the radiator and engine block at 10/120k.

Then it wants you to perform the same service every 5/60k thereafter because you do not remove all of the coolant if you follow their service procedure.

Coolant does not need to replace that often unless your vehicle has a reputation for cooling system issues. I would not even consider it until 100k at the earliest. However, instead of just replacing the coolant at 100k, I would consider a complete cooling system rebuild-- radiator, water pump, all hoses, radiator cap and thermostat. I have personally seen a lot of cars with just over 100k that have been overheated due to cooling system leaks, and a preemptive cooling system rebuild would have saved them.



So you would leave the coolant for 100k or ten years, which would cost about $20 to do a complete flush yourself, and instead, totally rebuild the cooling system which would cost much more? That's one funny way of looking at maintenance.

Also, these components last much more then 100k and only need replacing as needed, i.e hoses are soft or are showing cracks, water pumps usually leak before total failure, the systems you speak of must've been severly neglected and cracked hoses and leaks not attended to in time, thats is hardly a proof that you need to rebuild cooling system every 100k. I'd rather change coolant every 2 years than rebuild cooling system.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The problem with a T-flush is you are going to be left with a lot of tap water in the system and then you're probably going to have to use a non-OEM concentrate coolant. which by the way are rated for 5 year service life, yet there's no good reasons to believe they would have a shorter service life than Asian formula. that's the way I see and I don't care what anyone else thinks.


The LS400 had T-flush on for more than 12 years, since it is very easy to flush the coolant system with T-flush, I did the flush every 2-3 years with either Preston or Peak All-Make/All-Model concentrate coolant without any problem so far. Tap water in my area seems good to drink and for used in cooling systems of my cars.

One thing I don't like is paying high price for 50% water in the diluted coolants, whatever the make/model, be it Honda or Toyota or ...

 

[mechanicx]

T-flushes are fast and effective I agree there. If you don't have hard water problems, then the thorough flush a T-flush provides probably outweighs any drawbacks of having tap water left in. Besides, all makes dexclones and Peak Global tolerates tap water pretty well. I think relatively frequent coolant changes are the most important thing to prevent any corrosion.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Should I forget about it?

At 3 years old.


I think if you are just doing radiator drain 3 years is time to do it, since you're not going to get all of the old coolant out. I know Honda says 10y/120K for first change and 5y/60k subsequently, but they mean a complete change and I just think 10 years is ridiculously too long. A full change every 5 years or at least 1 radiator drain every 2-3 years seems more reasonable.

Honda wants you to drain the radiator and engine block at 10/120k.

Then it wants you to perform the same service every 5/60k thereafter because you do not remove all of the coolant if you follow their service procedure.

Coolant does not need to replace that often unless your vehicle has a reputation for cooling system issues. I would not even consider it until 100k at the earliest. However, instead of just replacing the coolant at 100k, I would consider a complete cooling system rebuild-- radiator, water pump, all hoses, radiator cap and thermostat. I have personally seen a lot of cars with just over 100k that have been overheated due to cooling system leaks, and a preemptive cooling system rebuild would have saved them.



So you would leave the coolant for 100k or ten years, which would cost about $20 to do a complete flush yourself, and instead, totally rebuild the cooling system which would cost much more? That's one funny way of looking at maintenance.

Also, these components last much more then 100k and only need replacing as needed, i.e hoses are soft or are showing cracks, water pumps usually leak before total failure, the systems you speak of must've been severly neglected and cracked hoses and leaks not attended to in time, thats is hardly a proof that you need to rebuild cooling system every 100k. I'd rather change coolant every 2 years than rebuild cooling system.


+1. A stitch in time saves nine. Spend a little time keeping things clean and the chemistry refreshed, and you save a lot of issues down the line.

The degradation of the chemistry is not linear, it is logarithmic in some way. This means that there is some point in time where the activity of the coolant for protection is great, fast, and really capable, then there is a point in time where the adds do not deplete quickly, but the buffering activity, etc. are far slower.

Any high school chemistry titration experiment will show this.

While both will likely be god enough to prevent warranty issues through the normal lease period or CPO period (all they really care about), there is a better way to do it.

Never could understand why folks gripe about $18 coolant in a $1000+ system on a $15k+ car. Change it and protect it.

And all that said, changes enable you to keep parts for a LONG time. I have multiple cars with >200k on all original parts. The most unreliable thing is the plastic radiators that toyota and Honda use, which will leak even with coolant changes. My MB plastic top radiators are still like new after 30 years...

 

[mechanicx]

+1

 

[MaximaGuy]

My bro ran on original coolant until 175K on his Honda Civic.
He accidently went in for a tire change at Sears and they also did the "Courtesy 20 pt inspection". The recommedation was to replace the coolant which my bro being an idiot inspite of me telling him not to have them change it signed off on it.

20K miles later his hood was under fire, gutted on 101 S. lesson learnt is they dumped some OTC coolant that rotted his radiator and shot his engine.

Never monkey in the coolant dept. BTW, as some said, u can run the original coolant to 120K w/o any problems, my bro 97 Civic went on original coolant for 10+yrs.