I've had really bad experience with Gates water pumps and wouldn't buy them again, but no issues with their belts.
170K on o.e. Timing Belt, they think its no issue!
- Thread starter panthermike
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FWIW, I got a Gates Timing Belt kit with idler/tensioner pulleys for cheap at RockAuto, but got a Napa OEM replacement Water pump, coincidence but I was not necessarily trying to avoid using Gates Water Pump. So, I can't comment on the water pump, but I also used their belts to replace the old Dayco belts on my Civic. No problems there either, 10K miles later.
Also, make sure to purchase engine seals while you are in there to replace those, if applicable.
Also, make sure to purchase engine seals while you are in there to replace those, if applicable.
It baffles me the amount of people to skimp on important maintenance items and drive around in a POS car that isn't safe to do 70mph on the highway because the tires might explode
I changed the T-belt on my 98 Camry V6 @ 90k. Its not @ 202k and i want to push it a little more (i did remove the cover and examined the condition of the belt and teeth and everything looked pretty good, so i feel it could last another 10-20k.)
170k on the OEM belt is REALLY pushing it! I'd be scared to start the engine in the AM.
I changed the T-belt on my 98 Camry V6 @ 90k. Its not @ 202k and i want to push it a little more (i did remove the cover and examined the condition of the belt and teeth and everything looked pretty good, so i feel it could last another 10-20k.)
170k on the OEM belt is REALLY pushing it! I'd be scared to start the engine in the AM.
Over here, the recommended timing belt replacement interval on that 4G94 engine is 100,000 km (62,500 miles). Although a lot of people simply replace it at 60,000 km (36,000 miles) as cheap insurance.
Worth stressing is the fact that the 4G94 has interference heads. If that timing belt fails, it's going to cost a lot more than the $450 you quoted for a valve replacement/cylinder head job.
You certainly did your part, however. People can be rather ignorant, and sometimes they just have to suffer the consequences of their actions. I had a friend who always had GM products with OHV engines, and then he bought a Pajero/Montero with a 6G74 interference engine that uses a timing belt. Told him many times to replace the belt, but he was ignorant enough to compare an OHV engine to a (D)OHC engine quoting "I never replaced no timing belts on my Chevrolets". Needless to say, he went in for a valve job later.
Worth stressing is the fact that the 4G94 has interference heads. If that timing belt fails, it's going to cost a lot more than the $450 you quoted for a valve replacement/cylinder head job.
You certainly did your part, however. People can be rather ignorant, and sometimes they just have to suffer the consequences of their actions. I had a friend who always had GM products with OHV engines, and then he bought a Pajero/Montero with a 6G74 interference engine that uses a timing belt. Told him many times to replace the belt, but he was ignorant enough to compare an OHV engine to a (D)OHC engine quoting "I never replaced no timing belts on my Chevrolets". Needless to say, he went in for a valve job later.
I went 204k miles on the original belt and I didn't have any problems. Even when it was taken out, the belt looked brand new and didn't have any signs of aging or cracking. Replaced it with a bando belt kit and Aisin water pump. Runs like a champ 2k miles after the tbelt job! Btw, this is on a V6 Galant.
It is hardly worth the chance to leave it in there . Hope vs. high mileage is not a good bet.
Also, get new pulleys - maybe a tensioner.
Only neglect pulleys if you have to put a belt on because they are shooting at you!
Clean the teeth really well.
Also, get new pulleys - maybe a tensioner.
Only neglect pulleys if you have to put a belt on because they are shooting at you!
Clean the teeth really well.
Originally Posted By: J_Sap
You gave your brother the information. He knows it could fail and it is not your car. I wouldn't worry about it anymore. It is not going to cost you anything if it breaks because it is not your car.
Move along with your life and let your brother handle the repercussions of his own actions and take care of your cars the way you want to.
+1, ten times over. Suppose they do get it replaced and the garage mucks up something else. Then, you are to blame "you told us to do this, and now look what happened!"
Families break up over this kind of stuff. It's a no win situation for you.
You gave your brother the information. He knows it could fail and it is not your car. I wouldn't worry about it anymore. It is not going to cost you anything if it breaks because it is not your car.
Move along with your life and let your brother handle the repercussions of his own actions and take care of your cars the way you want to.
+1, ten times over. Suppose they do get it replaced and the garage mucks up something else. Then, you are to blame "you told us to do this, and now look what happened!"
Families break up over this kind of stuff. It's a no win situation for you.
Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
Yeah it needs to be changed!.....but it seems all you can do is laugh and say told you so when that engine turns into a paperweight.....some people just need to learn the hard way
you tried, now you wait for their engine to go, and tell them "I TOLD YOU SO."
I just tossed a new gates tbelt kit from NAPA on my focus. What I can gather the tensioner and pulley were made by gates and so was the belt. Does not mean its the same quality but fit was great.
Yeah it needs to be changed!.....but it seems all you can do is laugh and say told you so when that engine turns into a paperweight.....some people just need to learn the hard way
you tried, now you wait for their engine to go, and tell them "I TOLD YOU SO."
I just tossed a new gates tbelt kit from NAPA on my focus. What I can gather the tensioner and pulley were made by gates and so was the belt. Does not mean its the same quality but fit was great.
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IDK the whole situation, but sometimes the darling one, who's good just because he gets good grades or fishes with daddy, will blow up an economy car more or less on purpose with an evil mind bent towards getting something sporty. They just have to let a situation present itself.
Or, if you corner him and ask, what is your annual budget for repairs and maintenance, he will more than likely have that deer-in-headlights look. Will probably mumble "but it's Japanese", the ignorant cry of someone whose mechanical world-view is soon to change. 170k miles in 9 years, he should save some gas money by not gallivanting around all hours and pay for the work.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
but how did the brother come into this car? Did your parents buy it for him or did he work for it?
IDK the whole situation, but sometimes the darling one, who's good just because he gets good grades or fishes with daddy, will blow up an economy car more or less on purpose with an evil mind bent towards getting something sporty. They just have to let a situation present itself.
Or, if you corner him and ask, what is your annual budget for repairs and maintenance, he will more than likely have that deer-in-headlights look. Will probably mumble "but it's Japanese", the ignorant cry of someone whose mechanical world-view is soon to change. 170k miles in 9 years, he should save some gas money by not gallivanting around all hours and pay for the work.
Him and his wife bought the car new. But, they've always been this way with maintenance, putting it off. They have an '07 F150 they that take better care of, but still not the best. To put it simply, they seem to think that oil changes are the only thing that matters.
IDK the whole situation, but sometimes the darling one, who's good just because he gets good grades or fishes with daddy, will blow up an economy car more or less on purpose with an evil mind bent towards getting something sporty. They just have to let a situation present itself.
Or, if you corner him and ask, what is your annual budget for repairs and maintenance, he will more than likely have that deer-in-headlights look. Will probably mumble "but it's Japanese", the ignorant cry of someone whose mechanical world-view is soon to change. 170k miles in 9 years, he should save some gas money by not gallivanting around all hours and pay for the work.
Him and his wife bought the car new. But, they've always been this way with maintenance, putting it off. They have an '07 F150 they that take better care of, but still not the best. To put it simply, they seem to think that oil changes are the only thing that matters.
I had the same situation with a female coworker recently that owned a car that had a timing belt. I told her about 8 months before it happened that she needed it changed. She brushed my suggestion off kept driving it and it snapped. She was in tears behind that repair bill.
Some local mechanic is drooling over the money he's going to make the day the belt snaps. It might snap tomorrow, it might snap next year, but trust it's gonna snap! Ignorance is expensive.
Some local mechanic is drooling over the money he's going to make the day the belt snaps. It might snap tomorrow, it might snap next year, but trust it's gonna snap! Ignorance is expensive.
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Maybe the worst thing to happen is that it WILL last and not break down.
Then pure luck would be relied on vs. good common sense and maintenance!
Then pure luck would be relied on vs. good common sense and maintenance!
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Maybe the worst thing to happen is that it WILL last and not break down.
Then pure luck would be relied on vs. good common sense and maintenance!
I fully agree with this.
Maybe the worst thing to happen is that it WILL last and not break down.
Then pure luck would be relied on vs. good common sense and maintenance!
I fully agree with this.
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Throw a bottle of Redline SI-1 or Amsoil PI in their gas tank, just for fun...
It could use some I'm sure!
Mechtech2, that actually wouldn't surprise me. I'm telling you, this thing routinely sees up to 7-10K OCI's on Dino and he always brings it to me oil change time w/ only 2.5-3qts in the sump.
Somehow the motor sounds very quiet and smooth and the valvetrain is actually quite clean. Could have been that Delvac/MMO run we did. I told him to run it 3K, he brings it to me with 7,500 miles
, oil was disgusting.
Throw a bottle of Redline SI-1 or Amsoil PI in their gas tank, just for fun...
It could use some I'm sure!
Mechtech2, that actually wouldn't surprise me. I'm telling you, this thing routinely sees up to 7-10K OCI's on Dino and he always brings it to me oil change time w/ only 2.5-3qts in the sump.
Somehow the motor sounds very quiet and smooth and the valvetrain is actually quite clean. Could have been that Delvac/MMO run we did. I told him to run it 3K, he brings it to me with 7,500 miles
Originally Posted By: panthermike
To put it simply, they seem to think that oil changes are the only thing that matters.
It is true, however, that the lack of oil changes is the only item that will cause irreversible damage to an engine. Transmission fluid, coolant, belts, filters, light bulbs, etc can all be replaced. Failure to replace them will not cause permanent, irreversible damage.
I don't know how durable the Mitsubishi belts are, but there are a number of people on Acurazine who have ran the original timing belts for over 200k without any issues. Time seems to matter more than miles, and timing belts are usually very, very high quality.
To put it simply, they seem to think that oil changes are the only thing that matters.
It is true, however, that the lack of oil changes is the only item that will cause irreversible damage to an engine. Transmission fluid, coolant, belts, filters, light bulbs, etc can all be replaced. Failure to replace them will not cause permanent, irreversible damage.
I don't know how durable the Mitsubishi belts are, but there are a number of people on Acurazine who have ran the original timing belts for over 200k without any issues. Time seems to matter more than miles, and timing belts are usually very, very high quality.
I've seen varying quality in t-belts, especially comparing oem vs replacement. due to CA laws, all cars are required to reach 105,000 before a Tbelt must be changed. don't recall when this started, but it was after '97.
I changed my 97 subaru T-belt at 60,000 in 1999, and it looked brand new with minimal stretch. the name brand replacement made it 30k before it stretched to the point where I was getting misfire codes and rough idle. It was a gates or a GY. But I didn't know what it was. at 106,000 the WP dumped so I pulled it all apart. Bought an oem belt. It was significantly sturdier than the aftermarket, which had stretched a good bit. All the misfire codes went away, and the healthy idle was back. As such, now I am firmly an oem t-belt person.
Belt condition is impacted by age, mileage, and how hard the engine is driven. If they get into the pedal, more force is required to pop the exh valve open. Heat, oil seapage, dirt... all impact wear. I once looked at a volvo with oem tbelt at 140,000-- It looked like a dead snake rotting in the sun. He swore it had been changed until I popped open the cover ("I didn't know there was a belt in there"). walked away, it could have gone at any moment.
A t-belt job runs $350-700 in general. Crashed valves/head $1200. Shattered pistons... and you're looking at $2k+. Give your guy those numbers and then let him roll the dice.
And perhaps stop changing his oil. That engine is gonna go when that belt does, and you don't want to be associated with it. I'll gladly help out family, but if they aren't the type to listen to what you suggest, after relying on your expertise to keep things going, I'd be wary they'd blame you if/when it pops.
Or at least get them to sign a letter acknowledging you've told them this and they are aware of your recommendation. That may be paranoid, but I've seen family do really nasty things when $ and blame are involved.
M
I changed my 97 subaru T-belt at 60,000 in 1999, and it looked brand new with minimal stretch. the name brand replacement made it 30k before it stretched to the point where I was getting misfire codes and rough idle. It was a gates or a GY. But I didn't know what it was. at 106,000 the WP dumped so I pulled it all apart. Bought an oem belt. It was significantly sturdier than the aftermarket, which had stretched a good bit. All the misfire codes went away, and the healthy idle was back. As such, now I am firmly an oem t-belt person.
Belt condition is impacted by age, mileage, and how hard the engine is driven. If they get into the pedal, more force is required to pop the exh valve open. Heat, oil seapage, dirt... all impact wear. I once looked at a volvo with oem tbelt at 140,000-- It looked like a dead snake rotting in the sun. He swore it had been changed until I popped open the cover ("I didn't know there was a belt in there"). walked away, it could have gone at any moment.
A t-belt job runs $350-700 in general. Crashed valves/head $1200. Shattered pistons... and you're looking at $2k+. Give your guy those numbers and then let him roll the dice.
And perhaps stop changing his oil. That engine is gonna go when that belt does, and you don't want to be associated with it. I'll gladly help out family, but if they aren't the type to listen to what you suggest, after relying on your expertise to keep things going, I'd be wary they'd blame you if/when it pops.
Or at least get them to sign a letter acknowledging you've told them this and they are aware of your recommendation. That may be paranoid, but I've seen family do really nasty things when $ and blame are involved.
M
I guess if I admit here that my dads '97 Corolla has 307,000 on the original timing belt, I am going to be in big trouble...... Was going to change it a few months ago when I replaced the radiator, but he decided to buy a new car so I put in the radiator and returned the belt. The new car purchase never happened so he is still driving it. That belt has got to be a whimpering pile of dust at this point, how its still going is beyond me.
Originally Posted By: quint
I guess if I admit here that my dads '97 Corolla has 307,000 on the original timing belt, I am going to be in big trouble...... Was going to change it a few months ago when I replaced the radiator, but he decided to buy a new car so I put in the radiator and returned the belt. The new car purchase never happened so he is still driving it. That belt has got to be a whimpering pile of dust at this point, how its still going is beyond me.
I'm almost certain that's a non-interference engine. In my non-interference 2.0 Camry, I never bothered to change it. It had well over 250k when I sold the car, original belt.
I guess if I admit here that my dads '97 Corolla has 307,000 on the original timing belt, I am going to be in big trouble...... Was going to change it a few months ago when I replaced the radiator, but he decided to buy a new car so I put in the radiator and returned the belt. The new car purchase never happened so he is still driving it. That belt has got to be a whimpering pile of dust at this point, how its still going is beyond me.
I'm almost certain that's a non-interference engine. In my non-interference 2.0 Camry, I never bothered to change it. It had well over 250k when I sold the car, original belt.
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