Oil pan heater is possible? The syn is a good deal when it comes to starting your vehicle.
15w40 in winter?
- Thread starter TomB985
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i have a 07 6.0 and i have a few posts on here regarding this very subject. over the past couple of years i had used Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 for winter, i'm also in oh nw, and make several trips north to play in the snow, -40`f a couple of times. unfortunately rts (both ci-4+ & cj-4) returned sub-par uao's, compared to 15w40. so this winter i'm going to use 10w30. up until 10 years ago or so 30wt. was the norm to use in almost all diesel applications, i'm not sure of the 6.4 specs, but the 6.0 spec is ok up to around 100`f ambient temp, and there are several ford techs recommending 10w30 year around in the 6.0
I've got the wolverine 250w pan heater ready to install. Just have to find the time. The duramax block heater is rated at 1100w, so it'll put some heat into the block. Problem is cold oil flow.
I was looking around over the weekend and found that Chevron makes a Delo 400 conventional 10w30 oil that they claim works great in over the road diesel trucks. I was kinda thinking of tyring some myself next oil change. I think it was a CJ-4 oil. They had a lot of claims of increased fuel economy from using a lighter oil than the standard 15w40 but still provided necessary protection for a diesel engine.
dnewton3
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Given that, I'd run the RTS; it is your least expensive choice that meets all criteria.
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Originally Posted By: TomB985
I wouldn't doubt small MPG gains with lighter oil.
For the 6.4L PSDs 10w30 is only acceptable in colder temperatures, and even then you're not supposed to tow with it.
Hmm, so what to the guys do in northern Alberta with these trucks using them for towing? I guess you have to run 5W40 and some sort of heater? Seems kind of funny that you can't tow with 0W40 but being forced to use a block heater with 5W40 probably isn't a bad thing.
I wouldn't doubt small MPG gains with lighter oil.
For the 6.4L PSDs 10w30 is only acceptable in colder temperatures, and even then you're not supposed to tow with it.
Hmm, so what to the guys do in northern Alberta with these trucks using them for towing? I guess you have to run 5W40 and some sort of heater? Seems kind of funny that you can't tow with 0W40 but being forced to use a block heater with 5W40 probably isn't a bad thing.
Originally Posted By: ryan2022
If youre concerned about fuel dillution while using longer drain intervals, maybe do a used oil analysis or two to check for it.
+1.
I would run synthetic 5w40 year-round, but that is just me. If I had an engine that experienced fuel dilution, then I would try to fix that problem instead of using an incorrect oil. Of course, the only way to know about a fuel dilution problem is UO testing.
If youre concerned about fuel dillution while using longer drain intervals, maybe do a used oil analysis or two to check for it.
+1.
I would run synthetic 5w40 year-round, but that is just me. If I had an engine that experienced fuel dilution, then I would try to fix that problem instead of using an incorrect oil. Of course, the only way to know about a fuel dilution problem is UO testing.
Run half Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck and the other half Delvac 1300 15W40. Mobil says you can mix their oils without worry (look at their site).
You will end up with a 10W40 semi synthetic blend (approximately).
That will bring you price per quart down from $5.50 to $4.06 assuming Delvac 1300 is still $10.50 a gallon at Walmart.
You will end up with a 10W40 semi synthetic blend (approximately).
That will bring you price per quart down from $5.50 to $4.06 assuming Delvac 1300 is still $10.50 a gallon at Walmart.
The fuel dilution is a pretty well documented effect of the regeneration cycle used to clean out the DPF on '07+ diesels. The only way to correct the problem is to remove the DPF.
I haven't done a used oil analysis yet, but I've never seen or heard of anyone with a 6.4 having anything less than 4-5% fuel dilution after 5,000 miles unless they removed the DPF.
On edit: Oldwolf, that's an interesting idea. I've heard that you can mix oils, but I've never heard from anyone who's actually done it. Would there be any negative effects of mixing the oil? So, assuming this would bring me down to a 10w cold viscosity, I should be in good shape down to about 0, right?
I haven't done a used oil analysis yet, but I've never seen or heard of anyone with a 6.4 having anything less than 4-5% fuel dilution after 5,000 miles unless they removed the DPF.
On edit: Oldwolf, that's an interesting idea. I've heard that you can mix oils, but I've never heard from anyone who's actually done it. Would there be any negative effects of mixing the oil? So, assuming this would bring me down to a 10w cold viscosity, I should be in good shape down to about 0, right?
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Hmm, so what to the guys do in northern Alberta with these trucks using them for towing? I guess you have to run 5W40 and some sort of heater? Seems kind of funny that you can't tow with 0W40 but being forced to use a block heater with 5W40 probably isn't a bad thing.
In that sort of climate, one uses a block heater for sure (maybe even a diesel fired Webasto, they are wonderful), also sometimes a battery blanket and oil pan heater.
No matter what oil you're running.
Don't kid yourself, even 0W40 is really thick after a night at -40.
Any diesel truck sold in Canada or Alaska comes standard with a block heater.
Mine came with a 1kw electric heater and a 9kw Webasto.
Charlie
Hmm, so what to the guys do in northern Alberta with these trucks using them for towing? I guess you have to run 5W40 and some sort of heater? Seems kind of funny that you can't tow with 0W40 but being forced to use a block heater with 5W40 probably isn't a bad thing.
In that sort of climate, one uses a block heater for sure (maybe even a diesel fired Webasto, they are wonderful), also sometimes a battery blanket and oil pan heater.
No matter what oil you're running.
Don't kid yourself, even 0W40 is really thick after a night at -40.
Any diesel truck sold in Canada or Alaska comes standard with a block heater.
Mine came with a 1kw electric heater and a 9kw Webasto.
Charlie
Originally Posted By: TomB985
The fuel dilution is a pretty well documented effect of the regeneration cycle used to clean out the DPF on '07+ diesels. The only way to correct the problem is to remove the DPF.
I haven't done a used oil analysis yet, but I've never seen or heard of anyone with a 6.4 having anything less than 4-5% fuel dilution after 5,000 miles unless they removed the DPF.
On edit: Oldwolf, that's an interesting idea. I've heard that you can mix oils, but I've never heard from anyone who's actually done it. Would there be any negative effects of mixing the oil? So, assuming this would bring me down to a 10w cold viscosity, I should be in good shape down to about 0, right?
This explains why I lost 34% oil life over 2 days (120kms) when my last regen happened. It was -15C and I was doing short trips mostly at idle in traffic. The regen took forever. My oil life hasn't dropped in two weeks since. It's super irritating to see that happen when you've just put 10L of expensive synthetic oil in the sump.
The fuel dilution is a pretty well documented effect of the regeneration cycle used to clean out the DPF on '07+ diesels. The only way to correct the problem is to remove the DPF.
I haven't done a used oil analysis yet, but I've never seen or heard of anyone with a 6.4 having anything less than 4-5% fuel dilution after 5,000 miles unless they removed the DPF.
On edit: Oldwolf, that's an interesting idea. I've heard that you can mix oils, but I've never heard from anyone who's actually done it. Would there be any negative effects of mixing the oil? So, assuming this would bring me down to a 10w cold viscosity, I should be in good shape down to about 0, right?
This explains why I lost 34% oil life over 2 days (120kms) when my last regen happened. It was -15C and I was doing short trips mostly at idle in traffic. The regen took forever. My oil life hasn't dropped in two weeks since. It's super irritating to see that happen when you've just put 10L of expensive synthetic oil in the sump.
Oldwolf, check out this tool for calculating actual viscosity of a mixture at 40 and 100C. given the viscosities of the admixed oils and the percentage:
http://www.rohmax.com/rohmax/en/customerservices/calculationtools/baseoilmixtures/
Mixing 2 oils with similar/identical additive packs like CJ4 Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck and Mobil Delvac 15W40 seems OK, but not so good an idea with vastly different packs, like an ACEA C3 low SAPS oil and a high SAPS E4 or CI4+ oil.
I think it's still preferable to buy a single entity with the characteristics you want. Like in your case Rotella T5 10W40 synthetic/mineral blend.
Jim5: Does the regen system on the 6.4 squirt fuel into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke, or into the exhaust system after it leaves the engine? The latter would avoid oil getting loaded with fuel.
That looks like a good system to delete with an electronic patch like a tuner box and a pipe to replace the particulate trap.
http://www.dpfdeletekits.com/
Think about EGR at the same time, getting rid of that decreases particulates and helps economy and oil quality.
Do you have emission checks in Alberta?
Charlie
http://www.rohmax.com/rohmax/en/customerservices/calculationtools/baseoilmixtures/
Mixing 2 oils with similar/identical additive packs like CJ4 Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck and Mobil Delvac 15W40 seems OK, but not so good an idea with vastly different packs, like an ACEA C3 low SAPS oil and a high SAPS E4 or CI4+ oil.
I think it's still preferable to buy a single entity with the characteristics you want. Like in your case Rotella T5 10W40 synthetic/mineral blend.
Jim5: Does the regen system on the 6.4 squirt fuel into the cylinder on the exhaust stroke, or into the exhaust system after it leaves the engine? The latter would avoid oil getting loaded with fuel.
That looks like a good system to delete with an electronic patch like a tuner box and a pipe to replace the particulate trap.
http://www.dpfdeletekits.com/
Think about EGR at the same time, getting rid of that decreases particulates and helps economy and oil quality.
Do you have emission checks in Alberta?
Charlie
Looks like Jim 5 has a Chevy LMM 6.6L engine, which is vastly different from the Ford 6.4.
The 6.4 pulses the injectors during the exhaust stroke to raise the EGTs to regenerate the DPF. This causes unburnt fuel to wash the cylinder walls and some of it makes it past the rings.
It's almost worth removing the DPF simply for the sake of running longer OCIs than 5,000 miles. The Ford maintenance schedule still says OCI at 10,000 miles for regular use, but after seeing a blackstone report of 13% fuel dilution, very few of us will wait that long.
The 6.4 pulses the injectors during the exhaust stroke to raise the EGTs to regenerate the DPF. This causes unburnt fuel to wash the cylinder walls and some of it makes it past the rings.
It's almost worth removing the DPF simply for the sake of running longer OCIs than 5,000 miles. The Ford maintenance schedule still says OCI at 10,000 miles for regular use, but after seeing a blackstone report of 13% fuel dilution, very few of us will wait that long.
Originally Posted By: TomB985
Looks like Jim 5 has a Chevy LMM 6.6L engine, which is vastly different from the Ford 6.4.
The 6.4 pulses the injectors during the exhaust stroke to raise the EGTs to regenerate the DPF. This causes unburnt fuel to wash the cylinder walls and some of it makes it past the rings.
It's almost worth removing the DPF simply for the sake of running longer OCIs than 5,000 miles. The Ford maintenance schedule still says OCI at 10,000 miles for regular use, but after seeing a blackstone report of 13% fuel dilution, very few of us will wait that long.
Agreed, and I'd love to remove that dpf and block the EGR. Except my truck has a 6 year 100k mile warranty that will be voided by a DPF delete. The 2007.5+ can tell if you've messed with the ECU's programming (needed to delete the DPF - cancel the regens) even if it restored to a perfectly stock program. It also records the number of regens against the number of miles and that would be out of whack as well.
I won't make it to 5k miles oci as indicated on the OLM. Right now it looks like the truck is calling for a 2k km (1,200 mile) OCI. The last one through spring and summer was 8,000 km when the OLM hit 0%.
Looks like Jim 5 has a Chevy LMM 6.6L engine, which is vastly different from the Ford 6.4.
The 6.4 pulses the injectors during the exhaust stroke to raise the EGTs to regenerate the DPF. This causes unburnt fuel to wash the cylinder walls and some of it makes it past the rings.
It's almost worth removing the DPF simply for the sake of running longer OCIs than 5,000 miles. The Ford maintenance schedule still says OCI at 10,000 miles for regular use, but after seeing a blackstone report of 13% fuel dilution, very few of us will wait that long.
Agreed, and I'd love to remove that dpf and block the EGR. Except my truck has a 6 year 100k mile warranty that will be voided by a DPF delete. The 2007.5+ can tell if you've messed with the ECU's programming (needed to delete the DPF - cancel the regens) even if it restored to a perfectly stock program. It also records the number of regens against the number of miles and that would be out of whack as well.
I won't make it to 5k miles oci as indicated on the OLM. Right now it looks like the truck is calling for a 2k km (1,200 mile) OCI. The last one through spring and summer was 8,000 km when the OLM hit 0%.
Tom: I have a 7.3L not a 6.4L. I can't get 10w30 or 0W-40 or 5w30 diesel oil around here.. Unless I order it off of the net. I will say this... I change my oil once before summer and once before winter...Dec thru May. 7 days ago, I poured in 14qts of Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 for the first time... The last 5 days the temp has averaged 34 deg... today it was 17deg...this morning it was 6deg... My 7.3L starts so much faster and easier with the 5W-40. I wish I had changed yrs ago. The idle is a bit smoother and quieter for sure. But the start up is so much faster and the 7.3L now seems to really want to start on the cold mornings. I do have a timer on my block heater, in which it turns on 3 hours before I leave every morning in the winter months. U can't go wrong with the 5W-40 yr round.
Thanks for the replies Jim 5 ans SyN.
Jim, there are tuning devices out there for the 6.4 that are not traceable, but they're pricey. Nobody I've ever seen on FTE has ever been caught using one, but I'm still not sure if it's worth the $1500 to do. I do not need, nor do I want more power, I would simply like a bit better MPGs and to be able to extend my OCIs to 10,000 miles.
-SyN-, your post is similar to many others who have tried 5w40 for the first time in the winter. Yours was very helpful because I always assumed with a block heater the engine oil and coolant temps would be over 100 degrees, and that cold starts wouldn't be a problem. Sounds like they are still a problem with 15w oil.
Thanks!
Jim, there are tuning devices out there for the 6.4 that are not traceable, but they're pricey. Nobody I've ever seen on FTE has ever been caught using one, but I'm still not sure if it's worth the $1500 to do. I do not need, nor do I want more power, I would simply like a bit better MPGs and to be able to extend my OCIs to 10,000 miles.
-SyN-, your post is similar to many others who have tried 5w40 for the first time in the winter. Yours was very helpful because I always assumed with a block heater the engine oil and coolant temps would be over 100 degrees, and that cold starts wouldn't be a problem. Sounds like they are still a problem with 15w oil.
Thanks!
Real world experience trumps should be everytime.
From the very next topic in this forum:
It was -32C here this morning. The AME started coming through my BMK-11 about the same as it does at about a few degrees below 0C (unaided) I had my block heater plugged in and not my pan heater. So, the oil's going to be stone cold.
I once aimed a laser thermometer at the pan. The time I did that it was about 35 celsius most places on the engine, some colder than others. My pan was -22C.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1700978/
From the very next topic in this forum:
It was -32C here this morning. The AME started coming through my BMK-11 about the same as it does at about a few degrees below 0C (unaided) I had my block heater plugged in and not my pan heater. So, the oil's going to be stone cold.
I once aimed a laser thermometer at the pan. The time I did that it was about 35 celsius most places on the engine, some colder than others. My pan was -22C.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1700978/
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