If you live within 100 miles of Chicago ... in fact, I *think* if you live in the state of Illinois ... you will have no choice but to run 10% ethanol. It's mandated. You'll get a little less mileage, but that's it. It won't hurt anything. Won't help anything either, but it certainly won't hurt anything.
100% GASOLINE
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In Buffalo, NY in the early 90's, reformulated gas was all we could get in either the summer or winter (can't remember) and multiple friends' older cars had issues with it. Gas tank rust becoming loose and heading into the filter.
Nope, I don't think T-kieth is refering to methanol - More or less has never been used in Minnesota due to the relatively cheap local supply of corn ethanol.
It is nice to at least have an option at a few places to find the non-ethanol fuel in Minnesota. I'll grant the legislature a little bit of wisdom in at least allowing those whose equipment can't handle the ethanol to get something that will work! It can be tough to find in the Twin Cities, but it seems to be all over up in Northern Minnesota resort country! (boats, snowmobiles, etc...)
It is nice to at least have an option at a few places to find the non-ethanol fuel in Minnesota. I'll grant the legislature a little bit of wisdom in at least allowing those whose equipment can't handle the ethanol to get something that will work! It can be tough to find in the Twin Cities, but it seems to be all over up in Northern Minnesota resort country! (boats, snowmobiles, etc...)
"Reformulated gas" is a term that cuts a wide swath. Reformulated with what? Ethanol? MTBE? In what concentration? More/less than 10%? As I said, In and around Chicago, 10% ethanol blends have been *mandated* for as long as I've been driving. Every car I've ever owned has run on nothing but 10% ethanol, as have all of my friends, families, neighbors, and co-workers. This includes everything from 1977 Ford LTD's, 1975 Chevy Novas, to my '99 Saturn. If there were problems, I've never heard of any, beyond the fact that (A) it's more expensive, and (B) it is less fuel-efficient. It will turn an EPA 40 MPG rated car into a 35 MPG rated car instantly. But damage? No.
It wasn't 100% gas, that's all I remember. I think it was 10% ethanol. Either that, or it was full of little men who attacked fuel tanks with hatchets!
T-Keith is right-the problem with ethanol in gas all has to do with BEFORE it's burned, not after. In older fuel systems, it would rot out the rubber hoses and corrode metallic parts. In carbs ethanol would rot out the gaskets between the fuel bowls/metering blocks/carb bodies, and then your carb would leak.
MichaelC80's experience is, I think, more along the lines of what people see now. With modern engine feedback FI systems, you just won't see an appreciable difference in mileage between 10% ethanolized gas and 100% gas-not enough to care about anyway.
FWIW, not all gas in the country has ethanol. Here in NE Ohio, Shell and Marathon still DON'T add ethanol to its gasoline supplies, whereas BP, Citgo, and Sunoco do. It's all regional, because it's subjected to state laws and regulations, along with EPA mandates for cities that have high air pollution.
Fitz
MichaelC80's experience is, I think, more along the lines of what people see now. With modern engine feedback FI systems, you just won't see an appreciable difference in mileage between 10% ethanolized gas and 100% gas-not enough to care about anyway.
FWIW, not all gas in the country has ethanol. Here in NE Ohio, Shell and Marathon still DON'T add ethanol to its gasoline supplies, whereas BP, Citgo, and Sunoco do. It's all regional, because it's subjected to state laws and regulations, along with EPA mandates for cities that have high air pollution.
Fitz
MNGopher & Everyone...
Minnesnowta has 92 Octane in some stations that is called "Non-Oxygenated" and it is for use in "snowmobiles, small engines, boats, ATV's, non-Auto equipment Only"
Well, what are they gonna do, call the Police...?
"If" someone wanted to get it, they could just fill up their gas cans and dump it in the Auto later when they get home...
Or, someone could go to it when they close and have the 24 Hr. pay at the pump and just fill 'er up.
Who'd know...?
Minnesnowta has 92 Octane in some stations that is called "Non-Oxygenated" and it is for use in "snowmobiles, small engines, boats, ATV's, non-Auto equipment Only"
Well, what are they gonna do, call the Police...?
"If" someone wanted to get it, they could just fill up their gas cans and dump it in the Auto later when they get home...
Or, someone could go to it when they close and have the 24 Hr. pay at the pump and just fill 'er up.
Who'd know...?
Here's one I always wondered about:
In my experience, oxygenated gas reduces gas mileage. Oxygenated gas is supposed to reduce emissions, but, if you're burning more gas, isn't the net effect about the same?
In my experience, oxygenated gas reduces gas mileage. Oxygenated gas is supposed to reduce emissions, but, if you're burning more gas, isn't the net effect about the same?
Effect is the same, but the farmers would lose that great subsidy, and isn't that what it's all about?
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doc
I think the most insidious effect of alcohol blends is the higher taxes they cause. Remember that the only way alcohol blends are cheaper than (or even as cheap as) straight gasoline is that the road/fuel tax is not levied on the alcohol portion of the fuel. Plus, there is normally a tax subsidy to ADM (Don't kid yourself, it doesn't go to the farmers) for supplying it, so that makes things even worse fiscally. So, in order to have the same funding available for road work, etc., tax rates on other things go up (perhaps even just on the gasoline portion of the fuel).
Wrong.
It's more like 68%.
Or the gas pumps were mislabeled. You can't tune around less energy in the fuel.quote:
Originally posted by Blue_Goose:
Maybe Toyota's are more better at adapting to Ethanol?
Goose
Well 36.10 MPG on this last tank of gas. That's a record for this car. It is a pretty new Mobil On the Run station with new pumps to boot etc...I have no way of proving it but I don't think they would go through the trouble of taking off the MBTE stickers and then slap on the Ethanol ones just for kicks.
In any event they can add weasle wizz for all I care if I can get 36 mpg
Goose
In any event they can add weasle wizz for all I care if I can get 36 mpg
Goose
Way to go!
Maybe your oil has sheared back a grade
(just kidding). Keep the records coming.
Pete (2002 Sienna--up to 84,000 sludge-free miles)
Maybe your oil has sheared back a grade
Pete (2002 Sienna--up to 84,000 sludge-free miles)
Well for what it is worth, ever since I have been using gas that says it contains Ethanol, my mpg has increased
I've pretty much stayed with Mobil but 2 tanks ago I filled at another place (Gas'n'Go..Hess in disguise)where it did not have any Ethanol stickers on the pump. I'm guessing this was Ethanol free gas...mpg was down about 2mpg from what I have been getting from the Mobil Ethanol blend.
My drive is pretty consistent every day...98% highway at 65-70mph.
In fact on this tank I'm probably going to break 35 mpg which will be a record for this car..
Going from winter blend to the summer blend may be causing a placebo effect but I never got this mpg last summer
Maybe Toyota's are more better at adapting to Ethanol?
Goose
My drive is pretty consistent every day...98% highway at 65-70mph.
In fact on this tank I'm probably going to break 35 mpg which will be a record for this car..
Going from winter blend to the summer blend may be causing a placebo effect but I never got this mpg last summer
Maybe Toyota's are more better at adapting to Ethanol?
Goose
Not using E85, I have never even seen a station that has that stuff. Just using the standard gas/10%(maybe?) Ethanol blend.
Goose
Goose
better farmers gettings subsidized over ExxonMobil
tax credits for ExxonMobil?
ExxonMobil: $118.2 billion in //profits//
The following is all 'ideal' situation: So, a gallon of gas has about 124,000BTUs in it. A gallon of alcohol has about 73,000BTUs. 10 Gallons of 10% would have 1,189,000BTU, vs 1,240,000BTU, or 95.8% of the BTU 'straight' gas has. I'm not sure how directly that translates to MPG, but lets guess that a car can burn 10% just as good as straight gas, that MPG is directly tied to BTU content. If I was getting 40MPG in my corolla on the highway, I'd now get 38.3MPG with 10%. I would be able to travel 22 miles less per full 13 gallons. I'd need another 1/2 gallon of either 10% or straight gas to make up the difference. .55G of straight, .57G of 10%. Not terrible difference. Lets say that gas cost $2. Since I would have filled up for $26 in either case, and I needed an extra .57G to make it those last 22 miles, I needed to spend an extra $1.14 in the 10% case, over a 520 mile trip. I'm not complaining about the cost of 10% yet...
If you were running...something that got much worse gas milage...it would probably cost you a lot more.
This past weekend, after filling up with 87 octane (E10) in MN, I drove to Illinois. My mileage was a whopping 14.5 mpg on that tank.
While in IL, I filled up with 87 octane that had no alcohol. I got 18.5 mpg on my return trip to MN.
So, using 10% Ethanol gets me over 20% worse mileage.
While in IL, I filled up with 87 octane that had no alcohol. I got 18.5 mpg on my return trip to MN.
So, using 10% Ethanol gets me over 20% worse mileage.
Methanol M85 = 56,000 - 66,000 BTU/gal.
Ethanol E85 = 80,000 BTU/gal.
Casoline = 109,000 - 125,000 BTU/gal.
Methanol = 8570 BTU/lb. =46% VS gasoline
Ethanol = 11500 BTU/lb. = 62% vs gasoline
Casoline = 18500 BTU/lb.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/fuel_comp.html
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/fuel_properties.html click on fuel properties database
E10 has about 3-4% less energy than gasoline.
M10 has about 5-6% less energy than gasoline.
Ethanol E85 = 80,000 BTU/gal.
Casoline = 109,000 - 125,000 BTU/gal.
Methanol = 8570 BTU/lb. =46% VS gasoline
Ethanol = 11500 BTU/lb. = 62% vs gasoline
Casoline = 18500 BTU/lb.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/fuel_comp.html
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/fuel_properties.html click on fuel properties database
E10 has about 3-4% less energy than gasoline.
M10 has about 5-6% less energy than gasoline.
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