1 ppm Iron is possible

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widman

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Recently got back my last analisis on my 2002 Toyota Hi-Lux Pickup with a 2.7 gasoline engine. I'll post both of the UOA I've done here. The first was 90% dirt roads, the second is 90% short city deliveries in a sandy-windy town. Both are running Delo 15w40. First was Toyota air filter, second was generic equivalent.

Kilometers on oil: 6608 -- 6211
Total Kilometers: 17758 -- 56053
Iron: 10 -- 1
Chrom: 1 -- 0
Lead: 2 -- 1
Copper: 1 -- 1
Tin: 0 -- 0
Aluminum: 4 -- 2
Nickel 0 -- 0
Silver: 0 -- 0
Silicon: 13 - 3
Sodium: 0 -- 1
Mag: 15 -- 9
Calcium: 3255 -- 2741
Phos: 1223 -- 1323
Zinc: 1302 -- 1722
Moly: 1 - 247
Tit, van, potasium: 0 -- 0
Fuel: Visc: 13.79 -- 15.03
water: 0 -- 0
soot/solids: 0.4 -- TBN: 7.6 -- 6.6

Looks like this one will be around for a lone time. Lead is probably due to the fact that my brother-in-law has done most of this driving for deliveries since his delivery truck has been in customs for tha last year, and he can't break the habit of releasing the clutch as soon as he lets go of the ignition key.
 
Toyota motors seem to put out quite different wear patterns then other engines. Iron is usually quite low. Looks good, obviously the first one is an older Delo without Moly. Wear seems to follow silicon.

-T
 
Great reports, no question about it. Good point about the older one being pre-moly Delo. Also at that low mileage there were probably still some break-in metals being seen.

Outstanding second report especially, one of the best ever for 4k miles. Mark up another one for Delo.

- Glenn
 
I don't know you guys what's all the hoopla over the Toyota engines if the lowly older design (Zetec) Ford Focus gives out as good or better per mile wear numbers under the very tough on oil conditions:
short 8 mi trips over 15 months.

-

BTW, what was the lab?
 
The total quantity of wear metals in the oils are 5ppm in widman's second analysis on a $1.50/qt oil, and 17ppm in yours on a $7/qt oil.

Still, yours is a very good analysis as well.

- Glenn
 
Comparing two different engines for wear metals is a futile exercise. While in general less is better, one engine might put out 50ppm of everything with no bad effects.

-T
 
quote:
The total quantity of wear metals in the oils are 5ppm in widman's second analysis on a $1.50/qt oil, and 17ppm in yours on a $7/qt oil.
Click to expand...
You've "missed" one little fact that my oil stayed in the engine for 15 months and 7K miles, almost double of that as compared to widman's.
 
Widman being in Bolivia with different fuels and probably worse conditions makes any comparison laughable regardless of time/mileage factors his circumstances are not compareable to SoCal. Considering the conditions his UOA is great. Even not considering circumstances it is great.
 
quote:
Comparing two different engines for wear metals is a futile exercise.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
Yet the most posters here do exactly that without any reservations.
The wear metals differences from engine to engine don't mean that much and can not be considered a sole indicator of the engine's quality or longevity.
 
quote:
Considering the conditions his UOA is great.
Click to expand...
Does anyone here disagree that his UOA is great?
What makes his conditions any tougher than So Cal?
Gas? California gas is cleaner, even though you have to burn more of it since it contains MTBE.
What else?
BTW, how much tougher could it be as compared to say MI, or MN with the oil-killing and engine-wearing freezing cold start-ups?
 
quote:
BTW, how much tougher could it be as compared to say MI, or MN with the oil-killing and engine-wearing freezing cold start-ups?
Click to expand...
The Andes, Some cities (La Paz for example) are at over 13k feet in elevation. Dusty and less maintained roads, Higher sulfer in the fuel.
From Realadventures.com
"Road conditions in Bolivia are extremely hazardous. Although the major population centers of La Paz, Santa Cruz, and Cochabamba are connected by improved highways, less than five percent of all roads in Bolivia are paved. For trips outside the major cities, especially in mountainous areas, a four-wheel-drive vehicle is highly recommended. Travel during the rainy season (November through March) is extremely difficult, because most routes are potholed, and many roads and bridges are washed out. "

This is probably why Hi-luxes and landcruisers are so popular there. It takes a rugged vehhicle to survive the rugged environment and operate reliably.
 
Why are you mentioning roads, potholes etc.?
Those conditions are tough on the body, suspension, tires, shocks etc.
We're talking about the oil and engines here, right?
Widman has mentioned that his roads are dusty.
But it didn't affect the oil that much since his filters are very efficient judging by the silicon numbers.

BTW, why are you speaking for widman?
You don't know the conditions his vehicle is operating. Let's hear from widman instead of speculating.
 
OK..
twak.gif
Edited for world piece.

[ December 20, 2005, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Bryanccfshr ]
 
Imagine whirled piece.

Yes I know comparing engines directly is problematic, but when you bring up another UOA as a comparison you're sort of begging the question.

Your oil did great, Vad, although Widman's second report, 4k miles in a "dusty, windy" city in Bolivia, and the numbers he got, are genuinely remarkable. I'm impressed with the oil filtration (solids
- Glenn
 
Good enough, glennc.
Your response is right on the point and doesn't have to be edited in order to allow the world remain in one piece.
I appreciate that.
cheers.gif


PEACE

[ December 21, 2005, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: vad ]
 
Been busy. Anyway, lab is CTGC in Phoenix Az, where I have had somewhere over 3000 samples processed.
Yes, roads are terrible, many of those in the towns that are paved are with river-rock pounded into the dirt. Vibration is terrible.
And yes, you cannot cross-compare engines. Each has different components, different stress points.
BTW, I have some very bad experiences from Ford Zetec engines. I have two Ford Courier pickups with 1.4 cc Zetec's in them. They are peppy little engines. But one is on it's second engine and one on it's third. I've also come to see at least 1 dozen more where, just like mine, the bearings spun. The original design has no key or clip to hold it in place. Both of mine now do (thanks to a local machine shop), so I'm now expecting them to last a while.
 
Widman, my 2.0 L Zetec is a completely different engine. I mean - totally.
It has a long production history and enjoys a very good reliability record here in the States.
The 1.4L has never been sold in US, as far as I know. The European reviewers almost always would choose it over the 2.0L, praising the smaller engine smoothness, fuel economy, high revving nature and overall refinement.
I don't know much about its reliability ratings.
 
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