1 Micron and smaller
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What for? What's the point? 1 micron is so (by a long shot) small that it doesn't matter in a conventional internal combustion engine, even hydraulic systems don't require this.
Well I doubt that you will find one that can remove soot, as it is submicronic.
What you can do with a by-pass filter is run higher soot numbers without increasing wear.
Usually what happens is soot agglomorates(sp?) it clumbs together and forms particiles larger than 5 microns, with that your will see higher wear numbers if you get too high of concentration of soot.
I've seen over 6% with someone running a by-pass and wear metals were all below average.
Just about any of the bypass filters will work in this fashion.
What type of vehicle are you looking to put it on?
I believe the CTD is very easy on oil. Compared to other diesels.
On my VW TDI which is known for high soot because of the EGR on it.
I put 20,000 on the last oil change in the TDI this was without any filter changes. My soot was .8% compared the to analysis prior at 10,000 which is the recommended drain interval and the soot was .4%. This was done through Oil Analyzers which uses CTC labs.
Oh I'm running the Amsoil BMK 11 with a BE 100 filter. (Roughly 1 1/2 quart capacity)
On my VW TDI which is known for high soot because of the EGR on it.
I put 20,000 on the last oil change in the TDI this was without any filter changes. My soot was .8% compared the to analysis prior at 10,000 which is the recommended drain interval and the soot was .4%. This was done through Oil Analyzers which uses CTC labs.
Oh I'm running the Amsoil BMK 11 with a BE 100 filter. (Roughly 1 1/2 quart capacity)
People that make filters that can't filter under one micron are quick to point out that it isn't important to filter under one micron. I don't operate in the grey area. A filter is either submicronic or it isn't. Most soot is under one micron in size. I don't believe in allowing the submicronic soot particles to stay in the oil until they can agglomerate into larger masses so that the inferior filters can remove them. I have my own opinion on which filters are best. Whether a filter is submicronic or not isn't a matter of opinion. A well designed TP filter can remove enough 1/20th of one micron average lamp black to turn the oil clear on the first pass. Diesel soot is similar. If you look at a roll of TP you would think that even soot couldn't get thru it. Some soot can get thru. All you can hope for is to get as much of it as possible. Getting virtually all of it is a lot better than getting none of it. I got so used to seeing the oil turn from black to clear on the gassers that I expected the oil to look the same when I installed a filter on my Peugeot diesel. My first lesson with dealing with diesel engines.
When I was demonstrating filters at the Trade Days 40 years ago I had the luxury of changing the Motor Guard and adding new oil before the next weekend. I knew that the oil would get black if I kept using it. It isn't economical to change the oil in a diesel engine before it gets black. If you can take a little oil off the dipstick and rub it in the palm of the hand and it leaves a clear oily film the soot content isn't too high.
When running a demo machine the oil must be black going into the filter and clear coming out. Clear plastic tubing works great especially when you have a light bulb behind it. I got some lamp black at a paint store that was in a liquid. Little did I know that the liquid made the lamp black agglomerate in oil so that the full flow filter could remove it. I went back to the powder. "Step right up folks let me show you what happens when I pump oil thru this big name full flow filter"
Ralph
When I was demonstrating filters at the Trade Days 40 years ago I had the luxury of changing the Motor Guard and adding new oil before the next weekend. I knew that the oil would get black if I kept using it. It isn't economical to change the oil in a diesel engine before it gets black. If you can take a little oil off the dipstick and rub it in the palm of the hand and it leaves a clear oily film the soot content isn't too high.
When running a demo machine the oil must be black going into the filter and clear coming out. Clear plastic tubing works great especially when you have a light bulb behind it. I got some lamp black at a paint store that was in a liquid. Little did I know that the liquid made the lamp black agglomerate in oil so that the full flow filter could remove it. I went back to the powder. "Step right up folks let me show you what happens when I pump oil thru this big name full flow filter"
Ralph
Amsoil has a wonderful demonstrator that does the same exact thing. It's kind of a gimic, that is what I see. ******* put your filter on extended your drains and do UOA. After 300,000 miles on your engine tell me how many TP changes you would have made, how much make-up oil you have used and how much time under the hood.
Like I have said in the past. ANY BYPASS FILTER WILL WORK. Amsoil, Oilguard, Frantz, motorguard, UTZ, Harvard. Just put one on and don't worry about it.
Will soot turn the oil black before the soot level has reached a detrimental point? I'm running 5000 miles between oil and filter changes, and the oil does not begin to change color until about 4000 miles. Even at 5000 miles, the oil color is much closer to new than my wifes Liberty at 500 miles.
To address Sub Zero's _Why bother with sub-micronic filtration_ ...
A "no-wear" condition can be established if the particles in a lubrication film are smaller than the thickness of the film. This has been the driving motivation for hydraulic oil polishing, as you mentioned. The clearances need to defined and considered.
Rings riding on the IC engine cylinder wall are probably the smallest clearance in the engine, and depressing particle size to sub-micronic will show reduced wear (and friction) in that area.
In pursuit of happy hardware!
RK-ik
A "no-wear" condition can be established if the particles in a lubrication film are smaller than the thickness of the film. This has been the driving motivation for hydraulic oil polishing, as you mentioned. The clearances need to defined and considered.
Rings riding on the IC engine cylinder wall are probably the smallest clearance in the engine, and depressing particle size to sub-micronic will show reduced wear (and friction) in that area.
In pursuit of happy hardware!
RK-ik
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That's one way to look at it, Oldman ..btw- mind if I have a stopwatch on you the next time you do this? You must look like one of those NASCAR pitcrew people doing that swap out and have the hood down in 2 minutes ..
You don't mind doing this every 3-4k. I do. I don't want to do that sort of thing often. Every tp change is "an event". I'd still have my chore clothes on ..I'd still have my gloves or have prepped my hands with soap under my fingernails. I'd still dirty my drain pan (since I'd have put enough extra lenght in the lines to allow it to be there). I'd still clean my funnel before and after ..and use the same amount of paper shop towels to clean up any drips and carry the, now dripping, funnel to its bucket.
I just can't get enough mileage out of that setup for the amount that I have to put into it. For that one "prep time" ... I can just service the entire vehicle every 10k-15k and do a few more things "while I'm there". It would also be different if I didn't have a couple of vehicles that do 15-20k a year on average.
The kind way of putting this is that I resist any action that doesn't have a high utilization curve when it involves my time. The other way to say it ..is that I'm lazy.
You don't mind doing this every 3-4k. I do. I don't want to do that sort of thing often. Every tp change is "an event". I'd still have my chore clothes on ..I'd still have my gloves or have prepped my hands with soap under my fingernails. I'd still dirty my drain pan (since I'd have put enough extra lenght in the lines to allow it to be there). I'd still clean my funnel before and after ..and use the same amount of paper shop towels to clean up any drips and carry the, now dripping, funnel to its bucket.
I just can't get enough mileage out of that setup for the amount that I have to put into it. For that one "prep time" ... I can just service the entire vehicle every 10k-15k and do a few more things "while I'm there". It would also be different if I didn't have a couple of vehicles that do 15-20k a year on average.
The kind way of putting this is that I resist any action that doesn't have a high utilization curve when it involves my time. The other way to say it ..is that I'm lazy.
I am partial to TP filters. They have served me well for over 40years. You won't see me paying over $20.00 bucks for a filter element that can't beat TP. Filter change recommendations are a lot of fabricating and guessing. The better the filter and the smaller the filter the more often it will need to be changed unless you don't mind normal wear. I don't like normal engine wear. I will change a roll of TP and add a quart of oil at the drop of a hat. I can get much longer engine life by using less expensive oil and changing the filter more often. Clean oil is a lot more important than what oil you are using. The only filter that can compete with the Motor Guard is the Frantz when it comes to cleaning. I prefer the Motor Guard for one pass filtering such as for fuel. As I have said before I don't care if everyone agrees with me.
Ralph
Ralph, you could change couple of words and use that phrase to describe most things in life....good one.
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Well, since you qualified your requirements ..very few. Amsoil makes a nice bypass spin-on ..but is probably only about 3um filteration. There are cotton wound cartriges (canister required) that can managed .5um ..and aren't that expensive ..but I'm unsure of the longevity of them.
You'll always have a trade off unless you go BIG. TP is good ..but limited in capacity. The bigger units that use paper towel rolls might serve you well.
The absolute filtration isn't the issue ..it's how much room you have for the unit that dictates your service interval. The Amsoil spin-on units are great for longevity.
How much room to you have ..and how much plumbing do you want to do ..and how much money are you willing to spend?
Amsoil ..good life/not as fine a filtration (but very good)
TP ..fine filtration/much shorter life - probably the cheapest media made.
Cotton wound...about the middle of both. Good life and decent absolute filtration. Limited availablilty and requires room to install. Read this over. and then read this too. With enough room and money ..you can have a 1um ..to .5um full flow.
eye eye eye,
I guess it's an uphill battle. Though it's kind of funny that at least there is a choice in products.
Who's to say one is better than the other, they are just different, but in the end, BYPASS FILTRATION RULES
I guess it's an uphill battle. Though it's kind of funny that at least there is a choice in products.
Who's to say one is better than the other, they are just different, but in the end, BYPASS FILTRATION RULES
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