0W-20 Volatility

[The Critic]

I was on Amsoil's site today and accidentally visited the page for their Signature 0W-20 oil. I noticed that their Signature 0W-20 has a NOACK Volatility of only 8.4%. My understanding is volatility serves as a fairly accurate indicator of basestock quality and the amount/quality of VII used.

As a comparison, I looked up other synthetic 0W-20 oils and listed their volatility numbers below:

Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20: 14.0%
Peak Synthetic 0w-20: 13.8%
Amsoil OE 0w-20: 12.6%
Amsoil XL 0w-20: 12.5%
Valvoline SynPower 0w-20: 12%
RLI Bio-Synthetic SHP 0w-20: 9.0%
Redline 0w-20: 9.0%
Amsoil Signature 0w-20: 8.4%

I am not surprised to see that Amsoil OE and XL have nearly identical volatility values. I remember from an older post that Pablo stated that the two products used the same base stocks but different additive packages. I believe that OE and XL are both Group III, while Amsoil Signature is something else. Also, there are no published volatility numbers for Toyota 0W20, but consider its absurdly low price and super high VI, it is probably close to the 15% mark.

Given the volatility numbers of OE and XL, and us being fairly certain that they are Group III, I would guess that Peak, PP and Valvoline are also Group III. PP also seems to deliver consistently higher volatility numbers than competing products, so I wonder if their basestock quality is a bit lower?

I am not sure how much the lower volatility really means for most 0w-20 users. Most of the 0w-20 applications are low-stress anyway, so burn-off is probably not an issue. However, if I am correct, this means that Amsoil is using a significantly higher quality basestock than anyone else on the market.

This brings me to my final question that I would like us to debate. Assuming that two 0w-20 oils can provide the same drain interval in an application, if one oil has a very high quality base stock while the other has a mediocre one, what will the higher quality basestock give me?

Edit-- Noticed that 4-ball wear scare for OE/XL 0w-20 are 0.46. For Signature 0w-20 it is 0.35. Signature 0w30 is also 0.35. Not going to get into the relevancy of the 4-ball wear test to engine oils, but I do find it interesting that there is a 24% drop in wear by moving to the "higher quality" 0w-20. Could the basestock improvement alone be responsible for this?

 

[buster]

Quote:
However, if I am correct, this means that Amsoil is using a significantly higher quality basestock than anyone else on the market.


No one knows what base oils Amsoil is using. The VI of the Amsoil 0w20 is 166, which is low, so they are using little if any VI's. 4-ball wear is a joke. Ignore it.

 

[Smoky14]

Not on topic Critic, but posting at 3AM is something I do.

Wish I could sleep at that hour, having trouble??

 

[Capa]

Too bad Mobil doesn't list their volatility numbers on their PDS

This interests me as well since I intend to run a 0W-20 in my Lexus V8 very soon.

 

[tig1]

4 ball wear test?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Too bad Mobil doesn't list their volatility numbers on their PDS

This interests me as well since I intend to run a 0W-20 in my Lexus V8 very soon.


True. Although to meet GM 4718M you have to be below 10%.

They do provide MRV figures.

 

[CATERHAM]

buster, I'd be pleasantly surprised but surprised nonetheless if Mobil 1 0W-20 had a NOACK under 10%.

 

[CMMeadAM]

Very same for PU's recent claims !!!

 

[CATERHAM]

The NOACK value of a finished oil are affected by a couple of factors.
First would be the viscosity of the base oils; the heavier the base oils used the lower the NOACK number.
Secondly, GP IV & V base oils tend to have a lower NOACK %.

The last three oils have the lowest NOACK numbers but they are also the heaviest oils. RLI has a HTHSV of 3.0-3.3cP, RL 3.0cP and ASM 2.8cP. As a consiquence these oils are better thought of as heavy 20wt or 30wt oils. Additionally, these oils contain little or no VIIs so they are using quite heavy base oils in their formulations.

All manufacturers that specify a 20wt oil have a HTHSV not higher than 2.6cP, consiquently the three aforementioned specialty oils are heavier than specified. Unfortunately, there aren't any truely light GP IV & V based 0W-20 oils on the market.
The closest is probabily Motul 300V 0W-20 with a HTHSV of 2.68cP and I suspect it's NOACK is 10% or higher.

 

[buster]

Yeah that is possible. I really don't know. It's my understanding most of these oils are blends of multiple base oils. Some use better esters and additives than others.

 

[ltslimjim]

My BIL with an '07 Fit, bought used with 120k+ miles; with like his 2nd or 3rd oil change put around 12,000 miles on Amsoil ASM and it didn't move from the full mark at all. He also was getting 50 MPG pulls with his 'hyper-miler' driving. Didn't hurt fuel economy.

 

[Norm Olt]

I would opine that where and how any given motor vehicle is driven is many time more relevant to its condition and service life (vis-a-vis an otherwise identical vehicle) than any esoteric statistic as to NOACK numbers, % of base stock, results of the VOA of the FF, etc. for the oils used.

In other words the driver and the location are more important than 0W-20 vs. 10w30 for MOST vehicles. I would admit there are possible exceptions, and those are, for the most part fairly recent.

Striving to ascertain minute chemical differences between one version of an oil and the "NEW, IMPROVED Now meets XYZ Certification!" version when it is going into a 10 year-old vehicle (regardlesss of its extremely low or high miles) seems downright silly to me.

Cheers!

p.s. In the same vein I also believe it is more important to brush your teeth twice a day than whether you use Colgate, Colgate TOTAL, Colgate Pro CLINICAL, etc.

I wonder if there actually are websites where people are so devoted to toothpastes..

 

[addyguy]

Pablo has stated in many Amsoil threads that the SS line of oils are all 100% Group-IV & V blends, and I actually suspect that there is quite a bit of group-V in them.

Little drastic, but I say FORGET ASM 0W-20 - go with the ALM 5W-20 - 5.7% volatility! In anything but the absolute coldest climates, you don't need the 0W ability - I'd bet a lot that ALM 5W-20 is probably THE most shear-stable, lowest volatility 20-weight oil you can get easily today.

 

[ltslimjim]

^I remember that 0w-20 Platinum or Ultra thread from last year. Pennzoil/SOPUS said auto parts stores order mostly 5w-20 and we would have to give enough demand in order to get supply.

Was that Plat or Ultra? Reason being is the new ultra PDS claims low noack.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Also, there are no published volatility numbers for Toyota 0W20, but consider its absurdly low price and super high VI, it is probably close to the 15% mark.
I am not sure how much the lower volatility really means for most 0w-20 users. Most of the 0w-20 applications are low-stress anyway, so burn-off is probably not an issue.If I'm correct, this means Amsoil is using a significantly higher quality basestock than anyone else on the market.

Assuming that two 0w-20 oils can provide the same drain interval in an application, if one oil has a very high quality base stock while the other has a mediocre one, what will the higher quality basestock give me?

The NOACK % is way down the list of attributes that I consider when making an motor oil choice. Having said that the FUCHS Titan GT-1 XTL 0W-20 I'm running in one of my cars has a NOACK of only 6% while still being lighter than Amsoil. It's unfortunate this German made oil isn't imported into the States,but the low NOACK % wasn't a factor in my choosing this oil.

As you alluded, oil consumption isn't a problem with light 20wt oils like the Toyota 0W-20 because oils temp's are low, that's why a light 20wt oil can be used in the first place.
A high NOACK % is more relevant with heavier oil grades where higher oil temp's are seen. For example a typical GP III based 5W-50 will have a NOACK in the 13-14% range. Burn-off is an issue as is oil shear due to the use of high molecular weight VIIs a problem not shared with the light high VI 0W-20s.

As I mentioned previously, there are no high VI, HTHSV 2.6cP 0W-20 oils that use predominately GP IV & V base stock oils. In theory one could make one but the lower VII content isn't going to give you lower engine wear, a longer drain period or significantly less oil shear. IF higher quality base stocks are used,(base oils with naturally higher VIs), what will likely happen is what occurred with Sustina 0W-20 vs the regular ENEOS 0W-20, and that is a push for an even higher final VI which is 229 with Sustina.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Also, there are no published volatility numbers for Toyota 0W20, but consider its absurdly low price and super high VI, it is probably close to the 15% mark.
I am not sure how much the lower volatility really means for most 0w-20 users. Most of the 0w-20 applications are low-stress anyway, so burn-off is probably not an issue.If I'm correct, this means Amsoil is using a significantly higher quality basestock than anyone else on the market.

Assuming that two 0w-20 oils can provide the same drain interval in an application, if one oil has a very high quality base stock while the other has a mediocre one, what will the higher quality basestock give me?

The NOACK % is way down the list of attributes that I consider when making an motor oil choice. Having said that the FUCHS Titan GT-1 XTL 0W-20 I'm running in one of my cars has a NOACK of only 6% while still being lighter than Amsoil. It's unfortunate this German made oil isn't imported into the States,but the low NOACK % wasn't a factor in my choosing this oil.

As you alluded, oil consumption isn't a problem with light 20wt oils like the Toyota 0W-20 because oils temp's are low, that's why a light 20wt oil can be used in the first place.
A high NOACK % is more relevant with heavier oil grades where higher oil temp's are seen. For example a typical GP III based 5W-50 will have a NOACK in the 13-14% range. Burn-off is an issue as is oil shear due to the use of high molecular weight VIIs a problem not shared with the light high VI 0W-20s.

As I mentioned previously, there are no high VI, HTHSV 2.6cP 0W-20 oils that use predominately GP IV & V base stock oils. In theory one could make one but the lower VII content isn't going to give you lower engine wear, a longer drain period or significantly less oil shear. IF higher quality base stocks are used,(base oils with naturally higher VIs), what will likely happen is what occurred with Sustina 0W-20 vs the regular ENEOS 0W-20, and that is a push for an even higher final VI which is 229 with Sustina.


Agree. Choosing an oil based on volatility alone is just dumb.