'06 F350 6.0L Powerstroke - M1 TDT 5w40 - 5,000mi

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588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
This was my first UOA for my truck... was my dad's, but when he retired it just sat in his driveway for about three years (maybe 10,000mi total over that time period)... so I took it off his hands last year, bulletproofed the heck out of it (to the tune of about $5,500), and figured now a year later I'd get my first UOA. EGR is deleted, new oil cooler, new ARP head studs, various oil fittings, turbo-back 4" exhaust (cat free), rebuilt & upgraded FICM, etc etc etc. Truck is tuned... mainly running Gearhead's SRL+ for daily driving, but dialed back to his 8k Tow tune when appropriate. Truck is used for a daily driver to my work about 7mi each way... it does get up to temp along the way. I take it on the highway at least once a week to "run it through". I re-filled with the same oil and have one more OCI stashed in my garage (got it during AutoZone's $12.99/gal sale they had earlier this year). After my stash runs out I am going to give one of the 10w30's a run considering how mine got shredded down to a 30-weight anyway... and seeing RoadRunner's 10w30 UOA makes me more curious. =) Any questions, please let me know! LOVE this truck. 5,000mi UOA run... 65,000mi on the truck total Oil filter = OEM Motorcraft / Racor Fuel filter = OEM Motorcraft / Racor Air filter = OEM Motorcraft (I did change the filter mid-OCI) Fuel type = Mainly b5 w/ 10oz Diesel Kleen per 25gal... however last two fills were with commercial b20 w/o Diesel Kleen.
Code:
Make Up Oil Added - 0 qts

ALUMINUM 2
CHROMIUM 2
IRON 25
COPPER 3
LEAD 2
TIN 1
MOLYBDENUM 23
NICKEL 1
MANGANESE 1
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 3
BORON 61
SILICON 11
SODIUM 4
CALCIUM 1108
MAGNESIUM 1025
PHOSPHORUS 1083
ZINC 1284
BARIUM 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210°F ... 66.7
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C ... 12.07
Flashpoint in °F ... 420
Fuel % ... <0.5
Antifreeze % ... 0.0
Water % ... 0.0
Insolubles % ... 0.3
TBN ... 7.3
 
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Messages
524
Location
sc/fl
Nice uoa. The oil was a little thin given that TDT starts out at 14.5 and ended up at 12.07, but it didn't seem to hurt anything? Do you have an oil pressure guage?
 
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5,120
Location
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
TBN still had plenty to spare, you could have ran that oil quite a bit longer. If you do go for longer OCI expect the iron to increase proportionately to the increase in time and miles. Is that vehicle one of the Fords with the spark-plugs that are very hard to change? My brother had an F 1500, and the shop he took it to wanted $700 to change the spark-plugs. They said that all the plugs brake and require a special tool to get them out. And the shop did not even want to do the job. That shop has a father and son working there. The son was willing to do the job, but the father told the son to refuse to even try, and get it off the lot.
 
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sdude2k2000

Thread starter
Messages
588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
TBN still had plenty to spare, you could have ran that oil quite a bit longer. If you do go for longer OCI expect the iron to increase proportionately to the increase in time and miles. Is that vehicle one of the Fords with the spark-plugs that are very hard to change? My brother had an F 1500, and the shop he took it to wanted $700 to change the spark-plugs. They said that all the plugs brake and require a special tool to get them out. And the shop did not even want to do the job. That shop has a father and son working there. The son was willing to do the job, but the father told the son to refuse to even try, and get it off the lot.
Yes, my diesel has the SPARK PLUGS?! that are expensive to change....... LOL
 
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sdude2k2000

Thread starter
Messages
588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: 29662
Nice uoa. The oil was a little thin given that TDT starts out at 14.5 and ended up at 12.07, but it didn't seem to hurt anything? Do you have an oil pressure guage?
No oil pressure gauge. Normal for a 6.0 to shear it down to a 30 weight... Which is why starting with a 30 weight has gained so much popularity when a HUEI system is in use.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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8,582
Location
Indianapolis, IN
The good news: UOA shows fluid in very good shape. Contamination low. Wear metals decent. Some shearing; typical of HEUI. Engine is implied to be in good shape. The bad news: 30 grade dino's will do as well for less cost. (See roadrunner1's last several 6.0PSD UOAs, for example.) I'll grant the topic that RR1 runs a stock truck and this one is modified, but overall the results do not have enough disparity to make any other reasonble conclusion than this: TDT was a waste of money here. Since I tend to irritate folks by mentioning this, I'll offer the olive brand of peace and also state this: sdude2k2000 - if you will try 10w-30 dino HDEO for the same 5k miles, I'll wager that your results will be essentially the same. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, too ... I'll pay for the lube. I'll escrow the money of one dino OCI to another member here, and if the UOA comes back "normal" (as defined by macro data analysis standard 3rd devation), then I get my money back and you owe me nothing. If the UOA does NOT come back normal, then you keep the money to cover the OCI lube cost. I exclude the filter because that is a wash either way that you would pay for, and any unforseen events that would alter any UOA (injector leak, coolant leak, intake failure, etc). Are you up for the challenge?
 
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sdude2k2000

Thread starter
Messages
588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I'll grant the topic that RR1 runs a stock truck and this one is modified, but overall the results do not have enough disparity to make any other reasonble conclusion than this: TDT was a waste of money here. Since I tend to irritate folks by mentioning this, I'll offer the olive brand of peace and also state this: sdude2k2000 - if you will try 10w-30 dino HDEO for the same 5k miles, I'll wager that your results will be essentially the same. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, too ... I'll pay for the lube. I'll escrow the money of one dino OCI to another member here, and if the UOA comes back "normal" (as defined by macro data analysis standard 3rd devation), then I get my money back and you owe me nothing. If the UOA does NOT come back normal, then you keep the money to cover the OCI lube cost. I exclude the filter because that is a wash either way that you would pay for, and any unforseen events that would alter any UOA (injector leak, coolant leak, intake failure, etc). Are you up for the challenge?
Please note my first post where I mentioned I picked up this TDT for $12.99/gal on AutoZone's special earlier this year... so definitely no "waste" here. Under normal circumstances I'd venture to agree that spending $25+/gal would not have panned out well in this application. Please also note that I already alluded to the fact that I will be trying a 10w30 after my current $12.99/gal stash of TDT runs out. More than likely it will be Rotella T5 10w30 since it currently has a $5/gal rebate offer... which allows me to pick it up for around $11.50/gal after it's all said and done. So no need for a "challenge" here, I'm already on board. I'd say the irritating thing in this circumstance is that you apparently didn't read my first post in its entirety. smile
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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Location
Indianapolis, IN
I did read it, in it's entireity. Running such an oil for only 5k miles is a waste; that was my premise, and your objection does not change that. I'm not the only one who said your oil could have gone further, as two others mentioned it specifically; I'm not the only one who recognizes waste. Your sales score on the TDT may have reduced the amount of wasted money, but not the fact that there was indeed still waste. I define a waste as not using a product to a full (or near full) potential. Really does not matter what you paid; you dumped the lube WAY before it was anywhere near condemnation. Heck, even a dino oil would have been a waste at that duration. But the least expensive oil you can find would minimize the fiscal waste. $12.99/gallon is not the least expensive oil that would work in your application. Any decent CJ-4 will work. There have been some excellent sales/rebates on other brands in dino form; some less than $10/gallon. Additionally, while this is your UOA, it's an opportunity to make info known for a wide audience. Just because you scored a great deal on TDT, does not mean everyone else will. But, what can be gleaned from this is that the 6.0PSD really does not have a great preference for brand or base stock, but they DO tend to enjoy a thinner grade. So, your UOA is yet more evidence that a syn did no better than a dino, at that duration. Hence, we all can learn something from your UOA. Is it wrong for me to point this out? Further - I challendged you to run dino, not T5. No matter; my offer is still open. My apologies for irritatingly correcting you. grin2
 
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sdude2k2000

Thread starter
Messages
588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
Newton - I've seen your plethora of posts over the years, and yes you beat the same drum everytime. I appreciate the help you provide folks and also appreciate your pragmatic approach to oil recommendations. That being said, I will continue to run out my stash of M1 TDT... I will then run the T5... and I have spent not over $13/gal on any of the oil I've run and plan on running, so cost is a non-factor. I simply strive for the highest quality at the lowest prices... period. I may stretch my OCI to 7500mi if the oils hold up, but will confirm that with proper UOA testing... otherwise, I sleep well at night with my 5000mi OCI. As far as your challenge, again - I appreciate the offer, but will respectfully decline. My truck - my rules.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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8,582
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
... That being said, I will continue to run out my stash of M1 TDT... I will then run the T5... and I have spent not over $13/gal on any of the oil I've run and plan on running, so cost is a non-factor. I simply strive for the highest quality at the lowest prices... period. I may stretch my OCI to 7500mi if the oils hold up, but will confirm that with proper UOA testing... otherwise, I sleep well at night with my 5000mi OCI. As far as your challenge, again - I appreciate the offer, but will respectfully decline. My truck - my rules.
You seem to imply that I wanted you to stop using the TDT; that's not correct. I only encourage you to greatly extend the OCI, to get more value out of the lube. Actually, any lube. I don't care what you run, be it TDT, T5, T6 or Delo/Delvac/VPB .... Just get the value out of it. I always mention 10w-30 because the HEUI shows a clear affinity for thinner grades, with no risk in wear. I'll grant that you got a good oil at a good price. But you could be getting the same results at a "better" price. Delvac 1300 was $8/gallon w/MIR late last year. That's a 40% savings for the exact same performance. I've seen 1300 perform very well in the PSD; there's no reason to think it would not fare as well. You might stretch out your OCI "if the oil holds up"? Sir, are you seeing something undesirable here that the rest of us don't? What?; like 7.5k miles is a big risk here? Even a decent CJ-4 dino could easily run that far. Given your 5k mile results, I'd think 10k would be a decent starting point for your next one. Your truck - your rules - your waste.
 
Messages
5,120
Location
Pittsburgh,PA U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
TBN still had plenty to spare, you could have ran that oil quite a bit longer. If you do go for longer OCI expect the iron to increase proportionately to the increase in time and miles. Is that vehicle one of the Fords with the spark-plugs that are very hard to change? My brother had an F 1500, and the shop he took it to wanted $700 to change the spark-plugs. They said that all the plugs brake and require a special tool to get them out. And the shop did not even want to do the job. That shop has a father and son working there. The son was willing to do the job, but the father told the son to refuse to even try, and get it off the lot.
Yes, my diesel has the SPARK PLUGS?! that are expensive to change....... LOL
Ok, you got me on that one. I'm glad for you that it is a diesel. You have to admit that $700 to change 8 spark plugs is kind of a gotcha that you dodged.
 
Messages
41
Location
Portland, OR
FWIW, I absolutely respect and appreciate your input David. I wished more folks groked what you're trying to tell them. I've only been reading here the last two or three weeks, but I've learned a lot. If it helps, I'm sure there are many other lurkers that think similarly. OP, waste is waste regardless and independent of cost. If you choose to drain a +10k oil at 5k, I don't care if it was a gift from the President with an EBT card and a bow on top smile , it's a waste. Getting a UOA on top of that is just piling it on. Of course the report comes back clean, what else is expected? At best you've established there's nothing wrong with the truck your Dad gave you. OK, good to know, but you could have done that without dumping the oil and starting over. And now that you've done that, there's nothing gained by doing it again. A little bit more generally, how many absolutely clean 5 & 8k UOA reports does it take to establish modern syn oils are capable of radically more than 5-8k miles? David's perspective, which I absolutely agree with, is that 5k OCI are a solved problem. Solved to the point one can run a conventional oil at 5k and see identical wear. There is nothing gained nor learned from a 5k UOA. The "science" of oil life is not being advanced with this data. HTH.
 

sdude2k2000

Thread starter
Messages
588
Location
Southern Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: folzag
FWIW, I absolutely respect and appreciate your input David. I wished more folks groked what you're trying to tell them. I've only been reading here the last two or three weeks, but I've learned a lot. If it helps, I'm sure there are many other lurkers that think similarly. OP, waste is waste regardless and independent of cost. If you choose to drain a +10k oil at 5k, I don't care if it was a gift from the President with an EBT card and a bow on top smile , it's a waste. Getting a UOA on top of that is just piling it on. Of course the report comes back clean, what else is expected? At best you've established there's nothing wrong with the truck your Dad gave you. OK, good to know, but you could have done that without dumping the oil and starting over. And now that you've done that, there's nothing gained by doing it again. A little bit more generally, how many absolutely clean 5 & 8k UOA reports does it take to establish modern syn oils are capable of radically more than 5-8k miles? David's perspective, which I absolutely agree with, is that 5k OCI are a solved problem. Solved to the point one can run a conventional oil at 5k and see identical wear. There is nothing gained nor learned from a 5k UOA. The "science" of oil life is not being advanced with this data. HTH.
I can deal with your opinions and generally salty attitude (not advisable for a newer forum member in most cases), but to insinuate that I'm a "freeloader" is completely unnecessary and pretty disrespectful. I never said my "dad gave me the truck"... I simply stated I took it off his hands. If you insist on details, I paid exactly what a dealer was going to give him on a trade in. A "gift from the president with an EBT card"...? Again, why the heck would you make a silly comment like that? This thread is about my UOA... Newton provided his usual input and I replied. I even stated that I appreciate his pragmatic approach to these scenarios. I don't think he needs you to jump in like this and "defend" him. Not every UOA is for determining "how far" an oil can go. Some people get UOA's to check the health of their engine as well. The 6.0L motor is notorious for various issues (i.e. head gaskets) and THAT was my primary reason for having a UOA performed... NOT how long can I make my oil go. The 6.0L is also notorious for shearing 40-weight oils (as newton and I both pointed out), so I was also curious how my viscosity held up over a 5k OCI so I had a good baseline. Please keep any future posts you make on topic to my UOA... or if you'd like to discuss the merits of synthetic -vs- conventional for my application that also makes sense. Bottom line - let's stay "on topic".
 
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Messages
41
Location
Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I can deal with your opinions
Ironically, you aren't dealing with them well at all.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
and generally salty attitude (not advisable for a newer forum member in most cases),
Agreed. 9 times out of 10 I am incredibly polite.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
but to insinuate that I'm a "freeloader" is completely unnecessary and pretty disrespectful. I never said my "dad gave me the truck"... I simply stated I took it off his hands. If you insist on details, I paid exactly what a dealer was going to give him on a trade in.
Actually, I don't insist on details. Gave, bought... I don't care. Even if it were a gift, that's not necessarily freeloading. Lacking any other info, it could just as easily be a cherished gift from father to son. So no, it's not disrespectful.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
A "gift from the president with an EBT card"...? Again, why the heck would you make a silly comment like that?
Because it was a silly comment meant to illustrate by way of hyperbole that the cost of the oil to you is immaterial to whether you are wasting it.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
This thread is about my UOA...
Actually, it became moreso about your OCI, and your insistence on it after being called out.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Newton provided his usual input and I replied. I even stated that I appreciate his pragmatic approach to these scenarios.
Yeah, I don't think you do, if by appreciate you mean understand and comprehend what he is trying to teach folks here.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I don't think he needs you to jump in like this and "defend" him.
I'm not defending him. I offered him thanks and appreciation (real appreciation) for what may seem like a thankless task in the face of willful ignorance. That's rude, but I can't think of a more suitable description.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Not every UOA is for determining "how far" an oil can go. Some people get UOA's to check the health of their engine as well. The 6.0L motor is notorious for various issues (i.e. head gaskets) and THAT was my primary reason for having a UOA performed... NOT how long can I make my oil go. The 6.0L is also notorious for shearing 40-weight oils (as newton and I both pointed out), so I was also curious how my viscosity held up over a 5k OCI so I had a good baseline.
Yeah, I stipulated that. Please recall, "At best you've established there's nothing wrong with the truck your Dad sold you for fair market trade-in ... there's nothing gained by doing it again." To clarify, "it again" was your stated plan for a 5k or 7.5k OCI & UOA. Here's an idea, why not pull a sample w/o draining & tossing the whole sump?
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Please keep any future posts you make on topic to my UOA... or if you'd like to discuss the merits of synthetic -vs- conventional for my application that also makes sense. Bottom line - let's stay "on topic".
The topic was OCI, and that wasting oil on a trivially short OCI is wasting oil regardless of the price at which the oil was acquired. By extension, a UOA on a trivially short OCI is also wasting money, once it's established the engine is mechanically sound. Speaking of, shouldn't you have UOA before investing $5500 in "bullet-proofing the heck out of it?" I'm just sayin'. If you were concerned it may have had a blown head gasket or some other notorious issue, why spend $5500 on upgrades before you run a UOA test?
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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Location
Indianapolis, IN
Rather than let this go on further, I'm going to say this ... I apologize. I did not mean for this to become a perceived attack on the individual(s). That's on me and I need to own it. So allow me to forge the path, eh? The facts are this: - UOA shows lube was in great shape and could go much further - UOA shows engine in good shape as well - UOA has many uses, if one understand the benefits and limitations thereof What folks decide to do with stuff they pay for is up to them. We can learn from others, either directly or indirectly. Agreed? (just say "yes"; it was rhetorical grin2)
 
Messages
6
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Somewhat new to the forum here... I've been a member, reading, just not many posts. So I understand that the 6 liter likes to chew on it's oil, I would tend to agree with that, as I've ran 5w-40 syn from a couple vendors and even 15w-40 syn as well. Where I'm confused is the shearing down to 30 weight. Is this making the statement that 'we' should start out with 5w-30 or 10w-30 or 15w-30 (I don't think that 15w-30 exists though) instead of 40? My latest oil changes have been with royal purple oil, the 15w-40 worked well enough in the summer, but the motor lacked snap or crispness in the winter is was like driving a bus, I went to the 5w-40, and it seems good, winter and summer. Now... on to the shearing... at around the 5k mark, no matter what oil I'm running, I really seem to notice more ignition noise and more vibration from the engine. So, assuming the oil has been sheared to 30w, wouldn't starting at 30w give the same noise and vibration levels at the beginning of the change as it would at the end since it's starting and presumably ending at the 30w viscosity? Would it theoretically be better to start at 50 and let it chew down? Something doesn't make sense. I haven't ran any 10w-30 through it yet, and will likely do another 5w-40 RP run since I still have some remaining. It doesn't burn any appreciable amount of oil, but based on the noise and vibration levels, I'm really not that inclined to push to 7.5k or 10k based on what I FEEL, though I agree, the iron and other wear indicators show it to be just fine, and likely could go longer... so what the heck is it I can hear and feel, but can't seem to quantify analytically? Here's my 15w-40 RP report MI/HR on Oil 6990 MI/HR on Unit 76990 Date 12/27/2014 Make Up Oil Added 0 ALUMINUM 4 CHROMIUM 1 IRON 16 COPPER 2 LEAD 5 TIN 1 MOLYBDENUM 2 NICKEL 0 SILVER 0 TITANIUM 0 POTASSIUM 0 BORON 67 SILICON 3 SODIUM 4 CALCIUM 2428 MAGNESIUM 28 PHOSPHORUS 1088 ZINC 1233 BARIUM 0 SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 61.7 cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 10.7 Flashpoint in °F 405 Fuel % 1 Antifreeze % 0 Water % 0 Insolubles % 0.1
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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Indianapolis, IN
Kleetus, I believe you are the clear winner in the posting restraint category. 1 post since 2007? If you want to post your UOA, it would be preferred for you to start your own thread.
 
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Messages
6
Location
Pittsburgh PA
LOL well at the time I signed up, our company changed it's access policies so I couldn't log in. But point taken. I was more thinking about the shearing of the oil as it was being discussed and threw my 2 cents in with a question because I'd never seen the question asked quite that way before. I'll repost, but I am still curious.
 
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