02 jeep 2.5/5k Bruceblend 0w-10 5100
- Thread starter Gary Allan
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Molakule has been around. Bruce too, just not as much as in the past.
Quote:
That is $6.25 a quart. Think it could be within $8-9? Just dreaming, I know it would never happen.
Maybe Bruce will do a new cost evaluation to see how much the costs have drifted. Figure something to cover the handling and pails and whatnot.
Anyway, if you can find 11 people committed to a 5 gallon pail ..who knows, it might be doable. It might end up to be quart +S&H. The 40lbs of shipping is probably a killer.
Quote:
That is $6.25 a quart. Think it could be within $8-9? Just dreaming, I know it would never happen.
Maybe Bruce will do a new cost evaluation to see how much the costs have drifted. Figure something to cover the handling and pails and whatnot.
Anyway, if you can find 11 people committed to a 5 gallon pail ..who knows, it might be doable. It might end up to be quart +S&H. The 40lbs of shipping is probably a killer.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I googled Polar Start DN 600 and came up with another product.
EMERY'S FRIGID-GO 2809-A 0w-20. It's a PAO and has a 5.77 cSt @ 100C. The date on the MSDS is 1990. The company, formerly of National Distillers and Chemical Corporation, now Quantum Chemical, appears to be a private company without a website.
Look at the volatility numbers on the chart about halfway down on this sample text.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mr0310th214q2242/fulltext.pdf?page=1
I wish they had apportioned data so that you could see what more mundane temps produced ..or rather volatilized.
From what I've found, Polar Start DN600 was only around in its '0W-10/AN base' form for a few years. By 1976, adds for this oil talk about it being a 10W-30 oil, and I have an e-mail from CP that states this oil was discontinued in the merger between Conoco and Phillips. At that time, Polar start was a 10W-30 syn-blend oil, with something like 10% syn content.
Emery's Frigid-Go oil was quickly picked up by the military for use in Artic equipment, and is still made today, solely for military use. I'm sure if you made the right connections, you could get 'army spec 0W-20'.....
I googled Polar Start DN 600 and came up with another product.
EMERY'S FRIGID-GO 2809-A 0w-20. It's a PAO and has a 5.77 cSt @ 100C. The date on the MSDS is 1990. The company, formerly of National Distillers and Chemical Corporation, now Quantum Chemical, appears to be a private company without a website.
Look at the volatility numbers on the chart about halfway down on this sample text.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/mr0310th214q2242/fulltext.pdf?page=1
I wish they had apportioned data so that you could see what more mundane temps produced ..or rather volatilized.
From what I've found, Polar Start DN600 was only around in its '0W-10/AN base' form for a few years. By 1976, adds for this oil talk about it being a 10W-30 oil, and I have an e-mail from CP that states this oil was discontinued in the merger between Conoco and Phillips. At that time, Polar start was a 10W-30 syn-blend oil, with something like 10% syn content.
Emery's Frigid-Go oil was quickly picked up by the military for use in Artic equipment, and is still made today, solely for military use. I'm sure if you made the right connections, you could get 'army spec 0W-20'.....
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Yep ..and it's about what you would expect in price
MIL-L-46167
MIL-L-46167 (MIL-PRF-46167), Lubricating Oil, Internal Combustion Engine, Arctic
54-Gallon Drum.
Ships 21-30 days after receipt of order.
Price: $1,875.00
What do they do, tap off a gallon for a tip? It doesn't even convert to an even number of liters.
http://www.mach-dynamics.com/Specifications/Military_Specification_Lubricant.htm
http://www.chemsol.com/chemsol/products.asp?scat=Lubricants
MIL-L-46167
MIL-L-46167 (MIL-PRF-46167), Lubricating Oil, Internal Combustion Engine, Arctic
54-Gallon Drum.
Ships 21-30 days after receipt of order.
Price: $1,875.00
What do they do, tap off a gallon for a tip? It doesn't even convert to an even number of liters.
http://www.mach-dynamics.com/Specifications/Military_Specification_Lubricant.htm
http://www.chemsol.com/chemsol/products.asp?scat=Lubricants
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There was another google reference when the MIL spec was put in to the engine. It was "alibaba" (spl?) ..but sourced the product from Europe. That would coincide with the other outfit's 21-30 day turn around time too.
btw-I found a lab that does just about ever ASTM test known to modern man. I'm inquiring about HTHS as a stand alone test or done in tandem with UOA/VOA. I hope it's not a fortune.
btw-I found a lab that does just about ever ASTM test known to modern man. I'm inquiring about HTHS as a stand alone test or done in tandem with UOA/VOA. I hope it's not a fortune.
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I sent an email to Polaris asking how much PQ index was in addition to their standard UOA. The lady in charge, for some odd reason, wrote back, "Why don't you just call and we'll talk about it?". I did ..she was "out or with another call". I left a message .she never returned the call ...etc..etc. And all for the lack of about 25 key strokes. What is it, way over the top in cost and she was going to talk me into it?? What the heck.
Essentially, that means that this is all I got to work with at the moment. I can only bend backward so far to spend money. I would imagine, however, that if I was slinging big chunks of Fe off the cam, that there would AT LEAST be some aggravated metals just from them banging around.
Essentially, that means that this is all I got to work with at the moment. I can only bend backward so far to spend money. I would imagine, however, that if I was slinging big chunks of Fe off the cam, that there would AT LEAST be some aggravated metals just from them banging around.
That sucks. Well, I think you are probably right. PQ Index and Ferrography are good to know, but not necessary.
Emission spectroscopy has a particle size limit of 3 to 5 microns. Most serious wear issues generate wear particles in the range of 5 - 15 microns. Oil analysis also only measures about 15-20% of the particles in the oil, according to Roy H.
Emission spectroscopy has a particle size limit of 3 to 5 microns. Most serious wear issues generate wear particles in the range of 5 - 15 microns. Oil analysis also only measures about 15-20% of the particles in the oil, according to Roy H.
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Well, Bruce should be throwing in readings from Analysts ..and I sent one into Oil Analyzers. I would have liked to have used Terry, but at the current price I'll save that for 10k if I go that far. I want to do HTHS and PQ.
You asked what it was made of:
No VII - GPIII and PAO
SL system with the SM AO and FM added
NOACK around 6%
You asked what it was made of:
No VII - GPIII and PAO
SL system with the SM AO and FM added
NOACK around 6%
Along with 6% secret squirrel additive. That seems like a lot for an additive. I guess Im just used to Phos being limited to .0xx whatever percent weight.
I'd pay $12/qt for that 
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Originally Posted By: Solo2driver
I'd pay $12/qt for that
I think I would too. Redline's 0w-10 is $13/quart +S&H and appears to come close to the same visc/vi/etc.
Joe Gibbs is loaded with additives, yet only has a 3.3 100C cSt. It's got to be way volatile. Bruce states that he can go lower on base stock, but lower means 30% volatility.
RP- doesn't publish squat about their 0w-10. $15/quart + S&H
..but these are surely all racing oils and not formulated for 10k ..or even 5k drains.
Okay, so we've figured that the price could probably be right if someone didn't really care about making money. Now there's just having some sensible demand for the stuff. Which I can't see happening.
I wish I had something like a Crown Vic. Most of those guys are already "in with thin". If you could manage normal operation without any consumption, that would be the vanguard target group. You would think Honda types would be too, due to the obvious ease that the engines deal with 20 weight, but there's some spiritual thing going on with Honda's and their owners. It's like some sacred bond with pre-feudal monks or something. Not knocking it, but it's there. Forget any Euro. Probably forget Toy's too ..they don't have the Zen thing going on with their rides ..but ..hmm... nope. Don't see it. Mitsubishi, sure, but they only get love in turbo trim ..so they're out. Hybrid owners? Maybe ..but they seem to think that the OEM already factored the absolute max allowable "shaving" to be done. It's different than the Zen thing with Honda owners ..but it's as strong, imo.
So, you're down to the misfits
Quote:
Along with 6% secret squirrel additive.
I think his "stealth polymer" was 8%. He sure wasn't letting on what he used. I don't even know.
I'd pay $12/qt for that
I think I would too. Redline's 0w-10 is $13/quart +S&H and appears to come close to the same visc/vi/etc.
Joe Gibbs is loaded with additives, yet only has a 3.3 100C cSt. It's got to be way volatile. Bruce states that he can go lower on base stock, but lower means 30% volatility.
RP- doesn't publish squat about their 0w-10. $15/quart + S&H
..but these are surely all racing oils and not formulated for 10k ..or even 5k drains.
Okay, so we've figured that the price could probably be right if someone didn't really care about making money. Now there's just having some sensible demand for the stuff. Which I can't see happening.
I wish I had something like a Crown Vic. Most of those guys are already "in with thin". If you could manage normal operation without any consumption, that would be the vanguard target group. You would think Honda types would be too, due to the obvious ease that the engines deal with 20 weight, but there's some spiritual thing going on with Honda's and their owners. It's like some sacred bond with pre-feudal monks or something. Not knocking it, but it's there. Forget any Euro. Probably forget Toy's too ..they don't have the Zen thing going on with their rides ..but ..hmm... nope. Don't see it. Mitsubishi, sure, but they only get love in turbo trim ..so they're out. Hybrid owners? Maybe ..but they seem to think that the OEM already factored the absolute max allowable "shaving" to be done. It's different than the Zen thing with Honda owners ..but it's as strong, imo.
So, you're down to the misfits
Quote:
Along with 6% secret squirrel additive.
I didnt realize Redline was that expensive for their 0W10. I agree $12/quart would be reasonable, considering this stuff has the TBN to last.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
So, you're down to the misfits
Hmm..I am 21 and I own a CV..in grandpa LX trim no less. Must be me.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Along with 6% secret squirrel additive.
I think his "stealth polymer" was 8%. He sure wasn't letting on what he used. I don't even know.
Whoops. I was going by memory. Do you even know what it was supposed to do, or was that top secret as well?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
So, you're down to the misfits
Hmm..I am 21 and I own a CV..in grandpa LX trim no less. Must be me.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Along with 6% secret squirrel additive.
Whoops. I was going by memory. Do you even know what it was supposed to do, or was that top secret as well?
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haven't a clue what the stealth polymer does. Whatever it is.. it appears to be worth it.
Who knows, this might be the next ff for Honda. If it makes 10k in a pushrod, it should make 15k in your typical Honda.
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Analyst appears to mostly agree with Blackstone's numbers. TBN is still strong here.
Aluminum 3.......5
Chromium 1.......1
Iron 16.........18
Copper 7.........8
Lead 2...........2
Tin 0............1
Moly 10.........11
Nickel 1.........1
Manganse 0.......NT
Silver 0......... Titanium 0....... Potassium 2...... Boron 29.........32
Silicon 14.......17
Sodium 4.........7
Caclium 2734...2776
Magnesium 11.....11
Zinc 1151......1297
Barium 136.......32 (132?)
Vis 100-5.18.....5.5
VI NT............170
TBN-D2896 NT.....7.3
Aluminum 3.......5
Chromium 1.......1
Iron 16.........18
Copper 7.........8
Lead 2...........2
Tin 0............1
Moly 10.........11
Nickel 1.........1
Manganse 0.......NT
Silver 0......... Titanium 0....... Potassium 2...... Boron 29.........32
Silicon 14.......17
Sodium 4.........7
Caclium 2734...2776
Magnesium 11.....11
Zinc 1151......1297
Barium 136.......32 (132?)
Vis 100-5.18.....5.5
VI NT............170
TBN-D2896 NT.....7.3
Wow, looks good Gary. I wonder how it would fare in an off road rig? I just returned from a cross-country trip to Moab with my 2.5L YJ (towed it out, she's on 38's). Had a good time and only rolled once. Lost about 1/2 qt of oil in the airbox and cylinder 4, but after blowing it out, she's none the worse. Me on the other hand...LOL
I changed out the Delo SAE30 for Q-TP 5W30 for the trip. I could most certainly feel the extra ponies from less oil drag.
Looks like your's/Bruce's 0W10 is a squirrels secret weapon.
I changed out the Delo SAE30 for Q-TP 5W30 for the trip. I could most certainly feel the extra ponies from less oil drag.
Looks like your's/Bruce's 0W10 is a squirrels secret weapon.
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I don't normally like to comment on the butt dyno, but you can even feel the difference between the 0w-10 and something like MC 5w-20. Runs on everything else (like RTS 5w-40) made you feel like the thing was straining around/above 3000 rpm. I don't know if it's a product of friction modification, windage reduction, or some whacked out parasitic loss from the oil pump.
I actually qualified as a "green" vehicle by beating EPA estimates for the chassis.
The addition of Dunlop M&S load range D took care of that. I only run 235/75's
I think this stuff would do fine in anything other than some Euro that banks on some really high HTHS. I think my sustained 80mph driving, pushing a brick into the wind (I wore ear plugs and managed both legs of the trip with the top down) would have produced the highest oil temps and the lowest operating visc.
I do need to find a lab that does PQ and HTHS testing. For all I know Bruce has come up with the Holy Grail of feather weights.
Moab. I hope to get there someday ..I'll probably be a spectator. I wanted to get Lion's back in ..but that's closed now.
I actually qualified as a "green" vehicle by beating EPA estimates for the chassis.
I think this stuff would do fine in anything other than some Euro that banks on some really high HTHS. I think my sustained 80mph driving, pushing a brick into the wind (I wore ear plugs and managed both legs of the trip with the top down) would have produced the highest oil temps and the lowest operating visc.
I do need to find a lab that does PQ and HTHS testing. For all I know Bruce has come up with the Holy Grail of feather weights.
Moab. I hope to get there someday ..I'll probably be a spectator. I wanted to get Lion's back in ..but that's closed now.
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