02 Accord V6 AMSOIL 0W20 8177 OCI 81282 on car

[benjamming]

Code:


Oil used AMSOIL 0W20 Redline 5W20 Redline 5W20 GC Green GC Green AMSOIL 5W20

Sample Date Jan-24-2008 Aug-17-2007 Mar-10-2007 Oct-14-2006 May-12-2006 Oct-1-2005

Miles on oil 8,177 10,022 7,671 7,618 7,518 7,506

Miles on car 81,282 73,105 63,083 55,412 47,794 40,267

Make-up oil 1.5 qt 1.5 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt 0.4 qt

Oil filter Mobil 1 EP AMSOIL EaO AMSOIL EaO K&N AMSOIL SDF Honda

Air filter Wix Wix Fram OEM OEM OEM

Fuel adds FP3000 FP3000 FP60 FP60 FP60 AMSOIL PI/RL SI-1

MPG 24.5 24.4 23.4 25.5 23.5 23.3

Lab Blackstone Dyson Blackstone Blackstone Blackstone Blackstone



Wear Metals:

Iron: 10 17 11 9 9 9

Copper: 17 41 19 25 24 30

Tin: 0 6 0 0 1 4

Lead: 5 6 12 18 40 7

Chromium: 1 1 1 0 1 1

Nickel: 0 1 0 0 0 0

Aluminum: 3 6 2 3 2 3

Titanium: 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silver: 0 0 0 0 0 0



Additive Metals:

Calcium: 3322 2412 2703 2900 2510 2634

Magnesium: 12 21 24 128 113 35

Zinc: 857 1550 1245 860 859 797

Phosphorus: 687 1314 1127 750 703 662

Barium: 0 5 1 0 0 0

Molybdenum: 54 1007 476 1 1 1

Antimony: NT 0 NT NT NT NT



Contaminant Metals:

Silicon: 8 14 13 7 5 8

Sodium: 5 42 13 1 1 4

Boron: 8 1 8 0 0 1

Potassium: 2 0 1 2 0 0

Vanadium: NT 0 NT NT NT NT

Manganese: 0 NT 0 0 1 1



Physical & Other Tests:

Viscosity 40: NT 58.6 NT NT NT NT

Viscosity 100: 8.5 10.0 58.2 65.9 65.2 54.2

TAN: NT 4.01 NT NT NT NT

Flashpoint: 405 320 SHORT 380 375 365

Oxidation: NT 175 NT NT NT NT

Nitration: NT 15 NT NT NT NT

Water: 0.0 519 (KF) 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

TBN: 3.1 3.1 2.2 2.9 2.7 2.6

Fuel: < 0.5 1.29 NT Trace < 0.5 < 0.5

Insolubles: 0.3 0 (soot) 0.3 0.5 0.5 0.4

Glycol: 0.0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0

VI: NT 156 NT NT NT NT

Sulfate byproduct: NT 125 NT NT NT NT


Plugs changed at 75029 miles with Denso Iridium.
PCV valve changed at 78388 miles with Napa. Hopefully this will fix the consumption issue.
Changed air filter at 80065 miles with Wix.

I believe this is a good report.

 

[RI_RS4]

Doesn't suck!

 

[buster]

Looks good Ben. Are you sticking with it?

 

[benjamming]

Yep, I dumped the oil & refilled with AMSOIL 0W20. I am using the same filter after I emptied it.

This interval & previous were different driving conditions than the rest. We moved into our new house in Feb-2007. It is a 30 mile each way trip to work & takes about 30 minutes. Church on Sunday is the same. Prior to that it was < 5 miles each way. It would previously only get up to real op. temperature on Saturday.

 

[FZ1]

Just fyi. I 've got an 02 v6 and about 6-8 oz oil use in 5k. How did your oem plugs look when you pulled them? I'm at 86k on my car.

 

[JAG]

Does this 6-cyl. engine typically show copper levels like this once broken in? I ask because I just saw buster's 4-cyl Accord UOA which had 0 copper.

 

[FZ1]

Jag,sorry I don't know. I'm just trying to learn,and I have not done a uoa on my V6.

 

[benjamming]

Jag,

Copper can remain high (relative to the '0' in the 4-cyl) in the J series V6. This is also evidenced by much lower Cu in the factory fill UOA of the 2 engines. They are just different engines. I believe mine will come down more.

 

[SubLGT]

Any idea why your lead was 40 ppm around May 2006, and then went down to 18 ppm at the next UOA?

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Excellent improvement on your last UOA. Keep doing what you are doing as it is working. My guess is a thrust washer was not quite right but time is wearing it in just fine. My accord burns zero oil at 200,000 so I am surprised by the oil consumption. Howeve mine is the 4 cyl so its apples to oranges.

 

[buster]

I would also continue to use Amsoil.

It's odd how the oil consumption went up with the Amsoil/RL intervals.

 

[benjamming]

Consumption is still more than it was prior to ~ 60k miles. I'm on the 2nd interval of AMS 0W20 now and have added 0.75 qt. I plan on doing an ARX interval next to see if that helps. I just need to determine which dino oil I'll use.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: TR3-2001SE
Excellent improvement on your last UOA. Keep doing what you are doing as it is working. My guess is a thrust washer was not quite right but time is wearing it in just fine. My accord burns zero oil at 200,000 so I am surprised by the oil consumption. Howeve mine is the 4 cyl so its apples to oranges.


Actually, looking at this UOA you cannot compare the Blackstone to the Dyson results. Blackstone uses ICP spectroscopy and Dyson uses Rotrode. Rotrode Spectroscopy includes particle sizes of up to between 10 and 20 micron, whereas the ICP particle detection size limit is between 5 and 10 microns, if I remember correctly. As a result, Dyson metal numbers are almost always higher, since more particles are included.

Based on this, you cannot say conclusively whether or not Amsoil 0W20 has better performance than Redline 5W20. Add onto that a change in Oil filter, and all bets are off.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks for the reminder on the different analysis equipment/method. What is the min for Rotrode/ICP?
The next analsyis will be by Terry. The oil filter may not throw everything off too much.

 

[RI_RS4]

Let me correct myself. I did a bit of reading. Here's a description from the MRT Laboratories website.

Quote:
The Rotrode Spectrometer has a particle size detection limitation of between 3µ and 10µ (depending on the particular metal in question and the amount of surface oxidation on the particle surface) compared to the .5µ - 2µ limitation of the ICP. Results of the Rotrode Spectrometer are accurate to about 1 or 2 ppm. Results of the ICP are accurate to .1 ppm. The advantage of the Rotrode Spectrometer is that no dilution of the sample is required, while the advantage of the ICP is its accuracy. With proper sample preparation, an ICP can measure in the 10's of parts per billion (ppb). Particle size limitations of an ICP are even more sever than a Rotrode Spectrometer because the sample and particles have to be nebulized. If measuring very low concentrations, the diluent (usually diesel fuel) has to be at least as clean.


For either method, there is no lower particle size detection limit. But there is a lower ppm threshold. ICP is capable of detecting particle dilutions of down to .01 ppm, whereas Rotrode has a higher limit of about 1 to 2 ppm.

So Rotrode can detect particles as large as 3 to 10 microns, whereas ICP has a size detection limit of .5 to 2 microns.

It is also possible to use the two analysis methods together to determine the percentage of larger particles in the sample. The larger the difference between ICP and Rotrode, the larger the average particle. In your case, if Cu pops back up, it might be indicative of some bearing galling.

 

[Greggy_D]

Does the TBN bother anyone else considering the oil SHOULD go another 7000 miles under "severe service" guidelines?

 

[benjamming]

No, b/c AMS says up to 15k miles.

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
No, b/c AMS says up to 15k miles.


That's my point. The TBN is down to 3.1 at 8000 miles, with 7000 miles to go.

 

[buster]

Quote:
That's my point. The TBN is down to 3.1 at 8000 miles, with 7000 miles to go.


I wouldn't be surprised if it remained at 3.0 for a few thousand miles more.

 

[Greggy_D]

Just asking based on what Bruce indicated:

Quote:
As I remember the TBN drop vs miles is NOT linear in that after about half the TBN is depleted the rate of "loss" increases


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1120860#Post1121598

ASM 0w-20 TBN starts at 12.1 .