'01 Jetta 1.8T with Valvoline 5W30 fossil oil

[JonT718]

Hi first post here, but wanted to post the details of my oil analysis report today and I am quite alarmed at the high copper and lead content of my AWW engine. Because my Jetta consumes almost a qt of oil every 1K miles I just started using fossil Valvoline 5W30 oil to keep costs down and also allows me to change the oil at every 2.5k miles instead of 3k. I am aware that the oil I am using does not meet VW 502.0 standards but I am left to wonder if my results would be different had I used M1 OW40 for example. Anway I'd like to hear everyone's input on this:

 

[addyguy]

Consuming a quart every 1k miles, and these results after only 1k miles?

Say bye-bye to engine!

 

[MGregoir]

Don't do it. Engines are more expensive than oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JonT718
Because my Jetta consumes almost a qt of oil every 1K miles

Where is this oil going? These engines aren't known for just consuming oil. Where is the leak? Is the oil getting into your turbo?

Are you making full boost?

 

[Ibrahim]

JonT718, you have a problem, please stop using the oil you are currently using, I suggest that you switch to a Fully Synthetic High Mileage Engine Oil by Mobil or Valvoline Maxlife etc

get a Bosch or Wix oil filter, keep the first oil interval short and then go back the normal intervals...

If this doesn't work, you probably have a mechanical problem, which has not fully surfaced yet!

 

[Audi Junkie]

Were you tested for coolant? Could be a leaking oil cooler, if you want to eyeball it.

 

[mechanicx]

Your sodium seems high and I understand that is a marker for anti-freeze. Coolant in oil will damage bearings among other things. Does it use any coolant? I didn't see where they test for antifreeze. Maybe you didn't post the whole analysis? did you have the TBN tested?

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't see any potassium ..so I don't lean toward coolant.

I'd surely go up in visc. One round of Rotella 5w-40 (for that matter 15w-40 at the rate you use it) should tell you if this is some visc related issue. Don't worry that it doesn't meet VW's alpha-numeric soup. Any HDEO will keep your Euro alloy entertained for 3k.

You don't happen to drive this like it was some Teutonic version of Tokyo Slide, do you??

One addition to Blackstone's comments. While sludge isn't removed from the engine in its formation, it sure can leech material that shows up in UOA in its removal ..suspending some elements that can be read by the machinery. While not officially "sludge", I had a leeching moly slug sitting somewhere in the engine that was disrupted by changing formulations. It was leeching 200ppm of moly and other entrained elements (dirt and added noise) for a very long time. It took a double dose of Auto-Rx to remove it.

That is, don't write it off just because you're getting whacked readings. Definitely go up in visc.

 

[oliveoil]

Are you the original owner? What have your OCI's been and what type of oil?

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Your sodium seems high and I understand that is a marker for anti-freeze. Coolant in oil will damage bearings among other things. Does it use any coolant? I didn't see where they test for antifreeze. Maybe you didn't post the whole analysis? did you have the TBN tested?


Valvoline uses that much Na as an additive in their oils.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I don't see any potassium ..so I don't lean toward coolant.



Yeah but being probably a European coolant formulation, would there be any potassium in the anti-freeze? His silicon is slightly elevated and I think the coolant would contain some.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Your sodium seems high and I understand that is a marker for anti-freeze. Coolant in oil will damage bearings among other things. Does it use any coolant? I didn't see where they test for antifreeze. Maybe you didn't post the whole analysis? did you have the TBN tested?


Valvoline uses that much Na as an additive in their oils.


Do they use that much in their dino? I wondered about that since I seem to remmeber seeing Valvoline uses sodium on their PDS, but I couldn't find a VWB VOA handy.

 

[addyguy]

Yup, they use that much in their dino. There have been a couple of UOA's if not VOA's that show this.

I don't think this is a coolant issue. this is the turbo or bottom end of the engine letting go.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I don't see any potassium ..so I don't lean toward coolant.



Yeah but being probably a European coolant formulation, would there be any potassium in the anti-freeze? His silicon is slightly elevated and I think the coolant would contain some.


Does phosphate free mean potassium free?

I dunno

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I don't see any potassium ..so I don't lean toward coolant.



Yeah but being probably a European coolant formulation, would there be any potassium in the anti-freeze? His silicon is slightly elevated and I think the coolant would contain some.


Does phosphate free mean potassium free?

I dunno

I don't really know either lol. I assume phospate would be phosphorus, but not sure

. I don't know what this application's coolant and oil would contain for certain. I guess Valvoline is high in sodium. But I was just saying on a lot of cars a sodium that high along with elevated silicon could indicate coolant getting in the oil.

 

[JonT718]

Hey everyone thanks for all your comments, just to add some additional details.

This is the bottom of the report I forgot to include:

Background on the Jetta:
-I am the third owner of the car. It was purchased with 104k miles and now has 125k. (Owner 1 had it for 90k Owner 2 had it for 15K). The previous owners had all used fossil oils till I switched over to M1 0W-40 after purchasing it (though the engine practically drank 0W-40) This past summer I switched to High Mileage M1 10W-40 and noticed slightly less consumption. Only recently did I decide to go with the fossil Valvoline 5W-30 based on the assumption that since the life of the engine has seen fossil oil why not go back? and also that the syn oil was possibly making its way through the seals. The fossil oil has been in the motor for exactly 1k miles now.

Maintenance:

-Prior to the reintroduction of fossil oil I was using an over sized VW Passat filter or M1-310 series filter (both of which allowed me add about 1/3qt more oil).

-The valve cover gasket/cam chain tensioner gasket/all PCV hoses have been replaced. The turbo was inspected and had minimal shaft play. I don't get oil drips on the floor nor do I see any plumes of smoke through the exhaust pipe. Past OCI's have been 3-3.5K miles (with 1qt oil being added off every 1K.



Current Problems:
I am experience boost problems which maybe related to a sensor b/c every time I reset the ECU I get normal boost.


Here are additional details related to my oil analysis as per my conversation with Blackstone labs:
- The high sodium content is related to Valvoline's oil composition.
-Insolubles weren't too big a concern
-No traces of coolant were found, a high potassium and sodium content would indicate coolant but luckily that's not the case here.
-The high copper/lead content "could" possibly be related to the oil cooler lines (I will investigate this on my own). And even if I used a syn oil, the results may not change all that much.


So my question to everyone is what oil to use now?
I drive the Jetta very conservatively and rarely rev past 5k RPM's (it's a 5-speed).

I have 6 qts of M1 5W40 Turbo Diesel Oil and about 10 qts of M1 0W40 . I live in the Northeast so I am leaning towards the 0W-40.

And should I immediately remove the fossil oil or let it run for another 1k miles and resubmit a sample to Blackstone?

 

[mechanicx]

Some good info. But if your cooler lines and cooler are stock, then seems like your lead and copper readings should be at universal averages. I'm not one of the oil experts, but I think TDO might be better but either should be good. I assume the engine doesn't knock? I'd probably just dump the oil if it were me, but I'd bet you could go another 1k on it.

 

[Silber Igel]

5W40 .. not 5W30 ... is the recommended weight for a 1.8T. If it were a low time motor you could get by with a 0/5W30. These motors use an engine oil cooler/heater that is connected to the cooling system. So you want to use the right grade oil all the time.... especially if you are turning high rpm or higher that OEM boost.

More likely than not...your oil consumption may be related to a faulty PCV valve or hose. The PCV doohicky is located deep under the front side of the head. The molded hose/plastic bit goes wonky. Its a bear to replace it. Look up how to on Google.

 

[Gary Allan]

Turbo Diesel for sure. I'd even save it and grab RTS 5w-40 until you lock down what's going on. I'd conceded the synthetic for the winter, but first Spring thaw, and assuming that this is still an issue, conventional 15w-40 would be in there just to save cash. The oil sheared slightly ..but it was such a short interval. It shouldn't have been any contributing factor on its own.

Now I know I asked if you drove this hard, and you've said that you never see upstairs of 5k rpms ..but there's a couple of different ways to reach 5k.

5w40 should work fine for the winter. M1 0w-40 will work too, but at the cost I'd bypass it for a cheaper product at your consumption and fatigue rate.

 

[JonT718]

mechanicx:
My original intention was to switch back to dino
oil and shorten my OCI's to every 2.5k miles (I have a Mityvac vacuum) Else, I don't have any engine knock issues at all.



Gary:

Thanks for the advice, the Jetta is a DD so I drive it very conservatively. My play car is a S2000 which see's 9k rpm's all day =).

The 0W-40 is already in the garage so I might as well use it. I got 5qt + 1 M1 filter for $25 at a sale. I've heard much about the Rotella oil on the VW forums but am concerned that a HDEO (such as the M1 5W-40 TD oil I have) oil might not be good on the the car's cat converter as the high cleaning properties of the oil could foul up my cat or possibly 02 sensor.

Also, should I consider adding Seafoam or AutoRX?

Silber:

Agreed, the 5w30 prob wasn't a good idea but I figured if it were on dino oil for the first 100K miles why not go back to it? The syn oil might be making its way past the seals no?

As for the PCV, the PCV hoses which is attached via tri-fit tube were replaced and were check out, yes it was a pain in the [censored] to get out. But I'll double check to see.