$0 NFA tax stamps begin today.

[Astro14]

The Dead Air Sandman-L is giving me the stank eye pretty bad right now.

I have a Sandman-S. It was my first. Very well made. The quick mount works very well and I have muzzle devices on several rifles. You can change out the 7.62 front cap (with ridiculously priced front cap tool) for a 5.56 and get just a bit better suppression for that caliber.

It’s a bit heavy compared with the titanium ones I have but the Sandman can handle full auto (lots of heat).

If I could only have one, it would be the top of my list. It does everything .30 cal and below.

 

[I<3oil]

I have a Sandman-S. It was my first. Very well made. The quick mount works very well and I have muzzle devices on several rifles. You can change out the 7.62 front cap (with ridiculously priced front cap tool) for a 5.56 and get just a bit better suppression for that caliber.

It’s a bit heavy compared with the titanium ones I have but the Sandman can handle full auto (lots of heat).

If I could only have one, it would be the top of my list. It does everything .30 cal and below.

It's going on my Grendel; the more reading I've been doing, I think I'm more leaning towards the Nomad or Nomad LTi instead of the Sandman honestly. I didn't realize at first the Sandman was more for HD/full auto usage.

 

[Hall]

The “long pole in the tent“ is not the ATF, it is the availability of appointments at my selected dealer to certify the form 4.

They are booking over a month out due to high volume.

Once I certify the form 4 with them, then I expect the ATF to approve in a couple of weeks.

The shop I use (and many others do as well) Silencer Shop to handle the bulk of the paperwork. The Form 4 was ready to be certified in (3) days (which included the weekend - bought on Feb 20, form ready on the 23rd). I had to go back to the shop to "certify" it in person. This part was dumb and 100% could have been done over the phone. It took less than 5 minutes and most of that time was getting logged into the ATF's site.

 

[Astro14]

The shop I use (and many others do as well) Silencer Shop to handle the bulk of the paperwork. The Form 4 was ready to be certified in (3) days (which included the weekend - bought on Feb 20, form ready on the 23rd). I had to go back to the shop to "certify" it in person. This part was dumb and 100% could have been done over the phone. It took less than 5 minutes and most of that time was getting logged into the ATF's site.

I don’t know when Silencer Shop began this requirement that Form 4 be “certified” in person, via the dealer, but it’s annoying.

It adds another step. It slows the process, in my case, by over a month.

 

[Astro14]

It's going on my Grendel; the more reading I've been doing, I think I'm more leaning towards the Nomad or Nomad LTi instead of the Sandman honestly. I didn't realize at first the Sandman was more for HD/full auto usage.

If you don’t need something that can handle a high rate of fire, then the Nomad TI, or the Q Jumbo Shrimp, would be great. The lighter weight is noticeable. I’ve got the Q Trash Panda on a .300 BLK, replacing the Sandman S for that SBR and the rifle is much better balanced with the Ti suppressor on it.

 

[Hall]

I don’t know when Silencer Shop began this requirement that Form 4 be “certified” in person, via the dealer, but it’s annoying.

The shop hands out a "guide" of the steps to follow for this entire process and it still says "You will have one or two options...." for the certify step - come in or call in. I tried to do it by phone but they said they quit doing this a while ago, because it takes too long and there's too many questions. I got the impression that we would go over all the forms, line by line, question by question, and I would confirm my answers. If so, yeah, that would take a little bit. Instead, it involved the shop logging in somewhere (ATF, Silencer Shop portal - I don't know) and then in another window they turned the screen to me and had me input my username and PIN. Guy took it back, glanced at the screen and said "yeap, it looks ready to go" and hit submit or something. I did this during my lunch and maybe went earlier than usual, but I have an email from the ATF at 12:51pm for the official submission (final step, then it goes into the approval queue). 10 minutes later I got the trust documents from Silencer Shop.

 

[I<3oil]

If you don’t need something that can handle a high rate of fire, then the Nomad TI, or the Q Jumbo Shrimp, would be great. The lighter weight is noticeable. I’ve got the Q Trash Panda on a .300 BLK, replacing the Sandman S for that SBR and the rifle is much better balanced with the Ti suppressor on it.

Yep, that was my thinking too after looking more at reviews for them.

 

[Astro14]

The shop hands out a "guide" of the steps to follow for this entire process and it still says "You will have one or two options...." for the certify step - come in or call in. I tried to do it by phone but they said they quit doing this a while ago, because it takes too long and there's too many questions. I got the impression that we would go over all the forms, line by line, question by question, and I would confirm my answers. If so, yeah, that would take a little bit. Instead, it involved the shop logging in somewhere (ATF, Silencer Shop portal - I don't know) and then in another window they turned the screen to me and had me input my username and PIN. Guy took it back, glanced at the screen and said "yeap, it looks ready to go" and hit submit or something. I did this during my lunch and maybe went earlier than usual, but I have an email from the ATF at 12:51pm for the official submission (final step, then it goes into the approval queue). 10 minutes later I got the trust documents from Silencer Shop.

I’ve done it with previous buys. I am familiar with the process.

But the reason escapes me. I have an e-forms account. I have a trust. I should be able to hit “send” without the dealer.

Requiring the dealer to log in and verify adds one more step, and in this case, that step took over a month to schedule.

Forms ready to certify on 6 February.

First appointment at the dealer, 12 March.

I get an email every day, nagging me to set up the appointment.

The roadblock here sure ain’t me

 

[Hall]

Forms ready to certify on 6 February.

First appointment at the dealer, 12 March.

Luckily in my case, this shop doesn't even require appointments and I went there either the same day or the day after it said they were ready to certify.

I’ve done it with previous buys. I am familiar with the process.

I was just posting my experience, especially their contradiction of the process and how the phone option that was available no longer is.

I have a trust.

This is the part I don't fully understand.... If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't seem to matter if this is one's first "tax stamp" or their 50th. You start over with each one ? Having a trust doesn't mean you're (sorta) pre-approved, does it ?

 

[Astro14]

Luckily in my case, this shop doesn't even require appointments and I went there either the same day or the day after it said they were ready to certify.

I was just posting my experience, especially their contradiction of the process and how the phone option that was available no longer is.

This is the part I don't fully understand.... If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't seem to matter if this is one's first "tax stamp" or their 50th. You start over with each one ? Having a trust doesn't mean you're (sorta) pre-approved, does it ?

You would think. I’ve got several suppressors already, and I’ve bought most of them through Silencer Shop.

So there shouldn’t be anything to certify because nothing on my end has changed.

I think that’s really the point of irritation for me, I’ve done this before, I already have an established trust, nothing has changed, so why are we continuing to repeat this new process of certification?

 

[Ws6]

Well, my KAC CRS-3 took about 24 hours to approve. Not bad.

 

[Hall]

You would think. I’ve got several suppressors already, and I’ve bought most of them through Silencer Shop.

So there shouldn’t be anything to certify because nothing on my end has changed.

I think that’s really the point of irritation for me, I’ve done this before, I already have an established trust, nothing has changed, so why are we continuing to repeat this new process of certification?

This is where the whole registration thing needs to go out the window and hopefully the multiple court cases settle this !

 

[johnmyster]

You would think. I’ve got several suppressors already, and I’ve bought most of them through Silencer Shop.

So there shouldn’t be anything to certify because nothing on my end has changed.

I think that’s really the point of irritation for me, I’ve done this before, I already have an established trust, nothing has changed, so why are we continuing to repeat this new process of certification?

This is the part that defies logic. Before digital fingerprints and efile it was even worse. How many times do I really need to go to the local jail for the one hour every other week that they offer printing, pay for parking, go through security, and get ink'd up so that the FBI can see my prints? Then go to CVS to get passport photo prints.

And then wait 14 months for approval and the SC doesn't rule that as an infringement on a shall-issue right.

The quiet part is that there's a whole branch at the ATF and they need job security. Logic would see opportunity to slim down. Government doesn't know how to streamline. Some director would loose seniority.

 

[Astro14]

This is the part that defies logic. Before digital fingerprints and efile it was even worse. How many times do I really need to go to the local jail for the one hour every other week that they offer printing, pay for parking, go through security, and get ink'd up so that the FBI can see my prints? Then go to CVS to get passport photo prints.

And then wait 14 months for approval and the SC doesn't rule that as an infringement on a shall-issue right.

The quiet part is that there's a whole branch at the ATF and they need job security. Logic would see opportunity to slim down. Government doesn't know how to streamline. Some director would loose seniority.

I completely agree, but that is a separate issue in this case.

The need to certify the form for before submission to the ATF is a silencer shop requirement, not an ATF requirement.

If I had simply purchased the suppressors from a local dealer, like I did the first time, then I would submit the e-form 4 and be done.

But silencer shop itself has added this extra step of verification, of certification, and that is the holdup, not the government.

 

[johnmyster]

But silencer shop itself has added this extra step of verification, of certification, and that is the holdup, not the government.

Valid, but it's another reason the whole process needs to go away. There's no reason this can't be handled like a 4473 transfer, which needs to happen anyway on the back end. Silencer shop isn't the root problem. An electronic process that still seeks to mimic a time when electronic databases didn't exist isn't the root problem. NFA is the problem. Solve any one of the three but let's not be confused on the real problem.

That said, I have one F4 and three F1s in process with a deadline of July 1 (virginia awb) for approval.

 

[Astro14]

Valid, but it's another reason the whole process needs to go away. There's no reason this can't be handled like a 4473 transfer, which needs to happen anyway on the back end. Silencer shop isn't the root problem. An electronic process that still seeks to mimic a time when electronic databases didn't exist isn't the root problem. NFA is the problem. Solve any one of the three but let's not be confused on the real problem.

That said, I have one F4 and three F1s in process with a deadline of July 1 (virginia awb) for approval.

My two suppressor purchases were driven by what’s going on in Richmond as well.

In fact, I recently picked up an Underwood M1 carbine and a Ruger Mini-14 because they will be impacted by the upcoming legislation. I’m good as far as everything else, but those two were on my “acquisition list“ for sometime in the future.

I decided not to wait.

I will have also have a Ruger 10/22 by the time this legislation is effective.

 

[I<3oil]

If you don’t need something that can handle a high rate of fire, then the Nomad TI, or the Q Jumbo Shrimp, would be great. The lighter weight is noticeable. I’ve got the Q Trash Panda on a .300 BLK, replacing the Sandman S for that SBR and the rifle is much better balanced with the Ti suppressor on it.

Ended up getting the Nomad Lti XC Xeno. Went in today to do the fingerprints at local gun store kiosk. Got home and had an email asking me to sign the Form 4 and submit on my end.

 

[Hall]

Approval came through on Sunday (Mar 15), so a total of 21 days.

 

[Elkins45]

I want to find one of the inexpensive Lyman silencers to try. $300 MSRP for a 30 caliber can. It’s not FA rated but on a bolt gun that doesn’t matter.

 

[User_19876]

I really hope those new to SOT will take the time to read the rather onerous restrictions on travel, carry, sharing/use, paperwork, etc., that go with NFA items. There are some real pitfalls that are simply not what most rational people would consider to be criminal behavior. More than a few ridiculous felonies.