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Thanks for your insights, @OVERKILL. Re: Supertech/Amazon Basic, they are at the opposite end of the spectrum of oils I would consider. I know that they are probably designed to just squeak by the API tests, and that is not what I am looking for. But do you see anything wrong with for a modern...

Sure, I would be happy to. (I missed that the questions were from @Astro14, rather than rhetorical questions from @edyvw, probably because of the similar looking icons they use). Thanks for pointing this out. Here are the Q & A's: Q: And how would “they” “prove” anything to you? A: By actually...

@edyvw, I don't know why you are in such a huff about my posting a factual statement from a respected oil company and stating my own buying preferences and how I arrive at those preferences. But your criticism is now becoming circular with no new content, so I am exiting this conversation...

My "they" and "them" refered to oil companies. They need to prove themselves to people like me in order to sell their products.

Also, as Gokhan reported from some recent ACEA meeting notes: “ACEA decided to adopt API valvetrain and timing-chain wear tests in their ACEA-2021 specification, but it turned out that 50% of the existing ACEA oils failed the API valvetrain test, and another 50% of the existing ACEA oils failed...

Some people will say "@edyvw, an annonimous contributor on BITOG, says that any oil meeting LL17 standards also meets API SP and ILSAC GF-6A standards. That's good enough for me." Others will say "If they meet the API and ILSAC standards, let them prove it by doing the tests and getting...

Well, let's have a look at the Motul PDS that I posted previously. It says: "The ILSAC GF-6a specification also ensures perfect engine protection when gasoline containing up to 85% Ethanol is used (E85)." My understanding is that ACEA sequences do not test for the impact of ethanol, since it is...

I don't see why I should not want to take advantage of something that cost three quarters of a billion dollars to develop. @BMWTurboDzl summarized what I am trying to say correctly. It's that simple. You are reading way too much into this.

A quick google search yielded this: "My sources tell me that the PC-11 development cost the industry about $350 million. The recently completed API SP/GF-6 introduction came in north of $400 million. Combined, we’re looking at about three quarters of a billion dollars!"...

So using the oils from these three companies that meet both the BMW LL17-FE ++ standard and the API and ILSAC standards will damage my car?

I think you are right. But Euro cars do not buy the oil - I as a customer do. And meeting API SP and ILSAC GF6 testing requirements does matter to me. That is why I am excited that I can now buy oil the meets both BMW and SP/GF6 testing requirements from three different well-respected suppliers...

@edyvw, you are still misunderstanding me for some inexplicable reason. You are ascribing to me positions that I am not making. That is known as a red herring argument. Please stop it. Go back and read my posts carefully, please. They do not say what you apparently think they do. I posted...

I agree. My owner's manual recommends an oil meeting the BMW LL17 FE ++ standard, so that is what I want to use. I was thrilled to see that more oil companies are now offering products that meet that standard and also meet other important standards such as API SP and ILSAC GF-6A. Now Liqui Moly...

Apparently Motul, Liqui Moly, and BMW don't think it is irrelevant. That is why they went to the trouble and expense of making their oils certifiable as API SP. I think that the Motul PDS that I excerpted above does a good job (making allowances for probably being translated text) of explaining...

@buster: you are right. Here is the PDS: https://www.mobil.com/en-us/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/na-xx-mobil-1-0w-30 . Quite a change! Thanks!

That's a huge improvement in the pour point. It used to be -42C. This looks more like the ESP version, although it is not identical. Are you sure this is for AFE?

Probably true. But I was surprised that they reformulated BMW TPT 0W30 LL01 FE to meet the API SP spec. Motul now claims API SP and ILSAC GF-SA certification in addition to LL17 FE ++ for its Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W20 product. Per its tech sheet: "API SP standard provides higher performance and...

You must have not read or understood my second paragraph. So let me repeat it: BMW knows a lot about their oils, about real world fuel qualities and about their control software - more than either you or I. That's why I recommend sticking with BMW's statement: "only BMW Longlife-04 and BMW...

I probably know much more about software than you do, but you know more about oil. In recommending that people go ahead and use LL-04 here in the US, you have obviously been making the assumption that BMW engines sold in Europe are programmed the same way as those in the US. With the advances in...

Just to be clear: I have no idea whether BMW installs different software for different countries. But they certainly could. And that would make the cars different in different countries, which could mean the correct oil for one country is different than the correct oil for another. In addition...