M1 0w-40 FS vs Rotella T6 5w-40

[thescreensavers]

I used to be a user of T6 when it was cheap and before it was popular on my WRX. Since I was doing AutoX and Trackday with it I was concerned about it missing specs related to my use case and choose an Porsche A40 approved oil instead.

Sounds like I made a good decision on that.

 

[350Rocket]

I remember Rotella T4 15W-40 was 12.2% Noack.

Shell spends $55 million/yr promoting Rotella, to a populace largely uneducated in engine oils, knowing those people will believe just about anything you put on a label. The average customer couldn't tell you what CK-4 is, much less VOA/UOAs, cut open filters, or pull valve covers and oil pans. Shell knows that very well, as do all the majors. Performance doesn't sell oil, marketing does. That's why most all of the majors are in a race to the bottom where saving 3 cents a gallon on production cost takes precedence over improving the quality of the oil. There's no incentive to produce anything better than the bare minimum standard, and the customer isn't going to know the difference in performance. They will notice the price difference and some flashy labels though.

Yes. And this is why I buy oil that meets the higher standard even though I'm just running it in an 19 year old Silverado. I need this truck to keep working probably past 400k miles (currently at 250k miles) so just because almost any oil will get this particular truck easily past 200k doesn't mean I shouldn't spend an extra $5 or $10 on an oil change (still buying oil only when it's half price) in hopes that it helps in the long run.

 

[dlundblad]

I'm saying the A3/B4, A40, MB 229.5, and LL-01 approvals are superior to CK-4. It may be minimum standard, but at least it's a better standard.

I have nothing to gain from someone buying Mobil 1. I have seen enough failures with Rotella, along with poor KRL, PDSC, and TGA results, to know that it is an inferior oil to the M1 option. M1 FS 0W-40 beats T6 5W-40 in all of those tests. I've seen the foam issue a lot. I know some performance cars on the street that lose oil pressure to aeration and foam with Rotella, as well as motorcycles that get noisy and see nothing but foam in the sight hole. Changing away from it to a more appropriate oil fixed the issue, and yeah, I know it's JASO approved, but that is a really weak standard.

As far as cost goes, (Walmart pricing) M1 FS 0W-40 is $5.59/qt vs T6 5W-40 is $5.87/qt. That's with Rotella on sale also.

You have seen a failure from Rotella? Can you elaborate?

Foam in either a motorcycle or high performance vehicle I suppose makes sense. Doesn’t T6 carry a motorcycle approval though? Not really applicable to what OP posted though and definitely something I haven’t experienced.

(I’m not attacking M1 0w40 by the way. I am using it in many machines and is my go to oil. I’ve joked I use it in place of pancake syrup.)

I’m not a fan of the light duty diesel oil being used in something that requires a HDEO so I guess the M1 being superior is debatable. Once again, it’s outside the scope of the OP.

 

[RDY4WAR]

You have seen a failure from Rotella? Can you elaborate?

Foam in either a motorcycle or high performance vehicle I suppose makes sense. Doesn’t T6 carry a motorcycle approval though? Not really applicable to what OP posted though and definitely something I haven’t experienced.

(I’m not attacking M1 0w40 by the way. I am using it in many machines and is my go to oil. I’ve joked I use it in place of pancake syrup.)

I’m not a fan of the light duty diesel oil being used in something that requires a HDEO so I guess the M1 being superior is debatable. Once again, it’s outside the scope of the OP.

Bearing failures is the main one. It's not uncommon to see it shear out of grade. When the oil becomes aerated, the pressure-viscosity coefficient (how much the oil "thickens" under load) is compromised. Combine the two and you have the potential for bearing cavitation. Bearings like this aren't uncommon to see.

Diesel manufacturers are starting to release their own standard. Mopar's 3rd gen ecodiesels spec their MS-12991 spec which closely mirrors ACEA A3/B4. Their factory fill is Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40. They do not recommend CK-4 and will void warranty if used. They're having a problem with dealerships putting Rotella in those engines by default, not recognizing the new spec, and the result is bearing damage as seen above. Fortunately, the owners are covered since it's the dealership's screw up.

Here's a UOA for an ecodiesel using Rotella and then switching to a better oil. The wear metals dropped substantially.

Rotella T6 5W-40

Fe = 9.6 ppm / 1k miles
Al = 11.8 ppm / 1k miles

HPL No VII 10W-40

Fe = 3.5 ppm / 1k miles
Al = 4.6 ppm / 1k miles

 

[Fabulous50s]

It looks like I bought my last (thanks to this thread) jug of T6 about 3 months ago. It was used in my tractor.

I've got Amsoil Dominator diesel oil for this OC.

 

[dlundblad]

I've got Amsoil Dominator diesel oil for this OC.

I’m not trying to be a pain in the butt, BUT the issues were in a motorcycle and high performance track vehicle. (Still should debatable though as the majority of users here claim oil failures are somewhere between rare and nonexistent.)

You’re saying Rotella T6 isn’t good enough for a diesel tractor and you’re also insinuating a diesel rated AMSOIL product (which likely has little to no SAE specs) is now your go to for everything?

 

[dlundblad]

Bearing failures is the main one. It's not uncommon to see it shear out of grade. When the oil becomes aerated, the pressure-viscosity coefficient (how much the oil "thickens" under load) is compromised. Combine the two and you have the potential for bearing cavitation. Bearings like this aren't uncommon to see.

View attachment 190920

Diesel manufacturers are starting to release their own standard. Mopar's 3rd gen ecodiesels spec their MS-12991 spec which closely mirrors ACEA A3/B4. Their factory fill is Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40. They do not recommend CK-4 and will void warranty if used. They're having a problem with dealerships putting Rotella in those engines by default, not recognizing the new spec, and the result is bearing damage as seen above. Fortunately, the owners are covered since it's the dealership's screw up.

Here's a UOA for an ecodiesel using Rotella and then switching to a better oil. The wear metals dropped substantially.

Rotella T6 5W-40

Fe = 9.6 ppm / 1k miles
Al = 11.8 ppm / 1k miles

HPL No VII 10W-40

Fe = 3.5 ppm / 1k miles
Al = 4.6 ppm / 1k miles

View attachment 190925

What was this bearing failure in and did you own it? The internet is full of people saying “This oil destroyed my engine.” I have never seen an oil related failure on this website. Many users here will parrot that as well.

Eco diesel engines are just that. They as well as other light duty diesels have never required an HDEO. Ignorant dealership employees think it’s the same thing as a diesel Ram 3500 and it isn’t. Add emissions equipment to the equation and it’s definitely the wrong oil for the wrong application.

To my original point, yes the 0w40 may be more well rounded, but a diesel that requires an HDEO won’t spontaneously combust if ran with T6.

 

[OVERKILL]

Eco diesel engines are just that. They as well as other light duty diesels have never required an HDEO. Ignorant dealership employees think it’s the same thing as a diesel Ram 3500 and it isn’t. Add emissions equipment to the equation and it’s definitely the wrong oil for the wrong application.

Actually, they did. This is from the 2018 manual:

 

[dlundblad]

Actually, they did. This is from the 2018 manual:
View attachment 190955

Who did what?

 

[Fabulous50s]

I’m not trying to be a pain in the butt, BUT the issues were in a motorcycle and high performance track vehicle. (Still should debatable though as the majority of users here claim oil failures are somewhere between rare and nonexistent.)

You’re saying Rotella T6 isn’t good enough for a diesel tractor and you’re also insinuating a diesel rated AMSOIL product (which likely has little to no SAE specs) is now your go to for everything?

No, I'm just using the diesel oil in my diesel tractor.

No longer will I use T6 for the majority of things.

I'm using M1 0w-40 for the gasoline vehicles and OPE.

 

[OVERKILL]

Who did what?

That's the manual from a 2018 RAM 1500 Ecodiesel, spec'ing a CJ-4 HDEO.

 

[dlundblad]

That's the manual from a 2018 RAM 1500 Ecodiesel, spec'ing a CJ-4 HDEO.

My mind went to the GM 3.0, (which unfortunately requires a 0w20) and I completely missed the Mopar on the bottom. My bad.

 

[Bullwinkle007]

In your BMW stick to ANYTHING that is approved for BMW LL01, and that includes Mobil1 0W40. Forget high mileage and other junk.

That’s all high mileage is. Marketing for the oil companies to sell

 

[dumkid]

Why use either? Use the cheapest a40 Porsche rated oil you can find

 

[edyvw]

Why use either? Use the cheapest a40 Porsche rated oil you can find

Porsche has a specific track test. Other than that, nothing special. If one wants street oil, for track purposes, yes, A40 helps. Other than that, MB229.5 and LL01 are more stringent.