How does HPL oils handle fuel dilution issues?
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BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
best to reach out directly to David at HPL.
I saw a uoa of 10w20 at the first open house. The oil held up well in a Mazda 2.5G. this engine is a cold weather fuel diluter. I have it in my Mazda now. I'm going to do a uoa and also try the no vii 5w30 next.
I would prefer all members know the answer. Knowledge is power right?
The only two ways to combat fuel dilution are more frequent oil changes or a higher starting viscosity.
HPL leverages some ubiquitous properties of oil (that they essentially “work-harden” from the heat exposure, and) thicken over time to try to offset this dilution, but as kschachn has posted several times, adding a low-viscosity fluid to a higher-viscosity fluid is a simple mixture calculation. There’s no magic bullet for this type of mixture.
HPL leverages some ubiquitous properties of oil (that they essentially “work-harden” from the heat exposure, and) thicken over time to try to offset this dilution, but as kschachn has posted several times, adding a low-viscosity fluid to a higher-viscosity fluid is a simple mixture calculation. There’s no magic bullet for this type of mixture.
Could their oil also help reduce fuel dilution by keeping rings cleaner and more tightly sealed?
I suppose after it’s cleaned everything up, a partial improvement may be possible, but the end-all “best” result will never be better than new without changing parts. Extremely thin piston rings with low-tension design are always going to let more fuel past the piston than a slightly thicker, higher tension design.
From my amateur opinion, you’d need a gas-ported gapless top ring, a Napier gapless second ring, and a standard tension oil ring all with “proper to slightly-tight” end gaps to provide optimal sealing. No OEMs are going to use a setup like this because in uncontrolled conditions, all of these modifications generally have a shorter optimal life span than plain, low tension rings, from what I’ve seen. Maybe LSJr has some new tricks up his sleeve at Total Seal.
Speaking of that, why doesn’t LSJr have an account here?!?
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
I suppose after it’s cleaned everything up, a partial improvement may be possible, but the end-all “best” result will never be better than new without changing parts. Extremely thin piston rings with low-tension design are always going to let more fuel past the piston than a slightly thicker, higher tension design.
From my amateur opinion, you’d need a gas-ported gapless top ring, a Napier gapless second ring, and a standard tension oil ring all with “proper to slightly-tight” end gaps to provide optimal sealing. No OEMs are going to use a setup like this because in uncontrolled conditions, all of these modifications generally have a shorter optimal life span than plain, low tension rings, from what I’ve seen. Maybe LSJr has some new tricks up his sleeve at Total Seal.
Speaking of that, why doesn’t LSJr have an account here?!?
In a CX9, HPL's 10W-20 had a higher KV100 at 5,000 miles than the OEM fill 5W-30 at the same 5% fuel dilution.
You have been on this Board for 16 years and you are asking this question about HPL Oil! I am guessing you do not use 1 of HPL's oils?
The oil you are using now, did you call them up and ask the question you are asking here? I am going to take a wild guess and say, No.
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By being blended with higher quality base oils, viscosity index improvers, and a robust additive package. It takes a lot of fuel to put a dent in HPL's motor oils. That said, fuel affects the efficacy of ZDDP in any oil, so while HPL is one of the best motor oils currently available on the market that protects engines with fuel dilution issues, you should always do your best to avoid it.
Fuel dilution is caused by short tripping the vehicle, improper maintenance, abuse, and bad design. There is no motor oil that will fix any of that.
HPL can clean up your engine, including free up the piston rings. However, it cannot make them better. That's just not possible, unless you believe in magic. Many engines today have low tension rings, so that makes matters worse, especially when they get stuck. To repeat myself: HPL will clean the rings with continued use, but it won't increase their tension. If you want a tighter seal in an otherwise healthy engine, increase the oil viscosity.
Not surprising. It probably also has a higher HTHS than the OEM fill as well, providing more protection as well.
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Fuel dilution can indeed contribute to the deterioration of engine bearings over time, a problem that has been observed in certain Hyundai and KIA GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) engines. The issue arises when fuel mixes with the engine oil, reducing the oil's viscosity and its ability to protect the engine's moving parts, including bearings. Interestingly, when higher High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) motor oils were used in these engines, their longevity improved. This is because HTHS viscosity is a measure of an oil's ability to maintain thickness and protective qualities under high temperature and stress conditions, which is critical for bearing operation in the hydrodynamic regime. In regions of the world where regulations did not mandate the use of low HTHS oils, and where manufacturers did not impose such specifications, these engines experienced fewer failures. Therefore, if an engine is known to be prone to fuel dilution, selecting a motor oil that can retain its HTHS viscosity is crucial for maintaining bearing integrity and overall engine health.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
And the opposite is true - which I have done by swapping in a quart of SAE30 from the Fumoto and drive a while longer …
Suppose EC30 would do that spike as well …
Fuel dilution is a concern with all oils. It is something I would be concerned with and change my oil sooner rather than later if a UOA shows fuel dilution as an issue that I was unable to resolve.
I don't think it can because fuel dilution involves the mixing of a low and high viscosity liquid. Besides not all TGDI engines are big diluters. The best solution to dilution is to go up a grade, but it's best to know rather than assume if your engine has significant dilution. My own TDGI engine was at 1% over a 6500 mile oci. Not a big deal.
That is largely a matter of overall viscosity and higher HTHS. It is well known that (to a point) a higher viscosity tends to result in better ring sealing. There are a few dyno videos on youtube where they test this. As expected, the higher viscosity oil can, in some cases, make more HP, and result in lower emissions, despite the increased drag.
Way back when the Ford 2.3L Lima engines were being turbocharged, I worked as a tech for a small company who developed an emissions rated camshaft and roller followers, using the stock hydraulic lash adjusters for the turbocharged application. There were something like 150 dyno runs of the engine with various profiles and settings. The emissions criteria back then were not far off from today's requirements.
One thing was clear even then, we'd use 10W-40 or even 20W-50 to ensure good ring seal and a good result. I clearly remember them smoking on initial startup and sometimes using oversized rings, with the end gap filed down to ensure a tight seal. These engines were not all that precise, especially when I assembled them
Fuel dilution will certainly shorten your OCI depending on the severity of it. We've seen in some engines, such as the Honda 1.5L, where the fuel dilution was pretty significant, yet wear stayed low.
The higher end oils such as HPL can in theory buy you more time and with a robust dispersant/detergent package and high solvency base oils, you're going to keep the rings clean.
The higher end oils such as HPL can in theory buy you more time and with a robust dispersant/detergent package and high solvency base oils, you're going to keep the rings clean.
And I assume they run on the higher side of their viscosity grade?
Not necessarily. Depends on the grade. Euro blends might. They use the most shear stable viscosity modifiers and even offer a grade that doesn't have them at all. Nice wide selection to choose from.
