France Halts Sale Of Certain Mercedes Models

[zloveraz]

I didn't even know that R1234yf was even approved... Anyone know if it's going to be mandated for the USA?

Here is the article, apparently France is upset that Mercedes reverted back to R134a...

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/10858...re-examine-case

 

[yonyon]

It's nice to see a company that big doing "the right thing" knowing it's going to cost them some money.

 

[ctrcbob]

R1234yf is flammable. That means it BURNS. The EU mandates its use. Germany and France are the two powers in the EU. All other countries follow. Mercedes knows R1234yf is dangerous and burns. Mercedes is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Don't know if and/or when it will be allowed in the US.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
R1234yf is flammable. That means it BURNS. The EU mandates its use. Germany and France are the two powers in the EU. All other countries follow. Mercedes knows R1234yf is dangerous and burns. Mercedes is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Don't know if and/or when it will be allowed in the US.


R1234yf sounds exactly like propane. Propane works much better than any type of freon. A lot of people are doing illegal conversions. For that reason, I will not say for the record if I did or did not do one myself.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
R1234yf is flammable. That means it BURNS. The EU mandates its use. Germany and France are the two powers in the EU. All other countries follow. Mercedes knows R1234yf is dangerous and burns. Mercedes is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Don't know if and/or when it will be allowed in the US.


It's already on certain GM cars... Specifically the 2013 Caddy XTS and ATS... I had no idea this was pushed through, the last I heard was 3-4 years ago while at SEMA a very large supplier of HVAC systems which I won't name was telling me how dangerous it was. I assumed it was still being developed.

http://sandyblogs.com/techconnect/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TechConnect-SeptOct-2012-web-F.pdf

 

[dishdude]

My ATS and Mercedes both want R-134a

 

[zloveraz]

dishdude you're correct, looks like only the XTS for North America has R1234yf..

Quote:
The only vehicles on sale in the U.S. with R-1234yf are the Cadillac XTS and Honda Fit electric vehicle (EV). A Cadillac ATS installation was changed to R-134a when a noise problem surfaced on the 2.0-L turbo, caused by compressor vibration resulting from the expansion valve setting selected for R-1234yf and proximity of the compressor mount to the front engine mount.


http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11870/

 

[rshaw125]

I thought R134A was the environmentally friendly refrigerant? What happened?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I thought R134A was the environmentally friendly refrigerant? What happened?


LOL I think this was discussed before and the thread ended up getting locked, so I won't go there. LOL

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I thought R134A was the environmentally friendly refrigerant? What happened?


Dupont wants it phased out in preparation for their new products...

Quote:
Given the success of the Montreal Protocol, DuPont is now engaged in advocacy work to add hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) to the Montreal Protocol. HFCs are non-ozone-depleting products that have served a critical role in replacing CFCs, but also are global warming gases. We believe that by developing a cap and reduction plan for HFCs, similar to what was done under the Montreal Protocol for CFCs and other ozone depleting materials, significant progress can be made in reducing the climate change impacts of HFCs and transitioning society to even better alternatives.


http://www.dupont.com/corporate-function...l-protocol.html

 

[rshaw125]

These are valid questions. I know people ,myself included, that bought the tools for R134A. Thinking it's the right thing to do. Better for the environment etc. The price of a can of R134A has gone from expensive to crazy.

 

[L_Sludger]

Does propane cause testicular cancer the way R134A does? You're more likely to die in agonizing pain from metastatic cancer arising from R134a use than from the ridiculous, minute chance that r1234yf would detonate catastrophically in a car accident. Guess what? Fuel also burns when exposed to the conditions M-B put them through. And fuel goes through lines VERY close to hot engine components.

Screw DuPont.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
These are valid questions. I know people ,myself included, that bought the tools for R134A. Thinking it's the right thing to do. Better for the environment etc. The price of a can of R134A has gone from expensive to crazy.


About a week ago, my local Orscheln store had R134A on sale for $4.99 a can. I should have purchased a few cases, but I was in a hurry and needed to get in and out fast.
Funny how the people who want it banned claim that it causes cancer AND is bad for the environment. If you want to cause fear and panic, you mention that something causes cancer OR that it's bad for the environment. If you really want to get something off the market fast, you claim that it does both.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Guess what? Fuel also burns when exposed to the conditions M-B put them through. And fuel goes through lines VERY close to hot engine components.


Offhand I can't think of any common fuel that produces hydrogen fluoride when burned. If you can, please don't burn them near me. A little fire is not necessarily going to kill you, but fire and that stuff has a much better chance.

 

[rshaw125]

This seems circular. Back to propane.

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
R1234yf is flammable. That means it BURNS.


R1234yf is not flammable, it is combustible. Exactly like motor oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, vaporized coolant, and yes, R134a when mixed with refrigeration oil and sprayed onto a hot exhaust manifold.