Liqui-Moly Synthoil Longtime 0w30

[dparm]

Recently came across this on the VW 502/505.01 approval list (June 2009 revision). Can be had for about $11/qt shipped to your door. NAPA does not stock this variety of Lubro-Moly, unfortunately. It is NOT the same as Longtime Plus.

Thoughts? Looks like a stellar off-the-shelf oil.

API SM/CF
ACEA A3-04/B4-04
MB 229.3
BMW LL-98
VW 502 00/505 00

Density @15C: 0.845
KV @ 40C: 52.0
KV @ 100C: 10.1
VI: 186
Flashpoint: 234C/453F
Pour point: -45C/-49F
Ash: 1.1
HTHS: >3.5


Highlights from the MSDS:
polyolefin polyamine succinimide, polyol: 1-5% (PAO)
Phenol, 2,2'-Polythiobis[4-C8-30-alkyl derivative, over-alkaline calcium salts]: 1-5% (detergents)
ZDDP: 1-2.5% (AW)


PDS:
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1171%20Synthoil%20Longtime%20SAE%200W-30_EN.pdf/$file/1171%20Synthoil%20Longtime%20SAE%200W-30_EN.pdf

MSDS:
http://www.chemical-check.de/clientversi...voiladb=web.nsf

 

[tinmanSC]

Holy cow! $11/quart?

 

[Falcon_LS]

Ran it in my Mercury for 4 months/11,000 km. It's a good oil, and the engine run smooth and quiet. Also used it in my 2003 Grand Marquis before. Doesn't mean much without a UOA, I know. But I was happy with it. Only reason I switched to Synthoil High Tech 5W-40 was for the additive package and higher TBN.

 

[dparm]

What's the TBN of this oil? It's not listed in the PDS.

$11/qt isn't really that outrageous when you've got Motul 8100, Renewable Lube, and Redline all coming in at $11+/qt after shipping.

 

[Falcon_LS]

TBN was either 7 or 8, I will have to confirm. Price is high though. I picked up a 5L jug for $44 here.

 

[HTSS_TR]

M1 0W40 meets MB 229.5 and it's only $6.xx/qt at WalMart.

 

[2oldtommy]

It looks overpriced to me. According to the MSDS, the amount of the listed components make up about 12.5% of the total. What base oils make up the balance of 77.5% ? Looks like a syn blend unless there is more info available. FWIW-Oldtommy

 

[CATERHAM]

I like it a lot more than GC.

 

[dparm]

Liqui-Moly's German website says it is "fully synthetic", not "synthetic technology" (which is where they list the group III HC oils).

 

[2oldtommy]

OK-- thanks Oldtommy

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: 2oldtommy
It looks overpriced to me. According to the MSDS, the amount of the listed components make up about 12.5% of the total. What base oils make up the balance of 77.5% ? Looks like a syn blend unless there is more info available. FWIW-Oldtommy


I have to say I agree I noticed the same thing, it looks like a little PAO mixed with Group III. I would NOT pay that much for that mix no matter what the HTHS is. M1 0w40 would be my advice, Motul if you want to pay for a true syn 0w30.

 

[dparm]

Lucas 0w30 offers nearly identical specs for about $8/qt, too.

WorldPAC carries it but I don't think they do B2C sales.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: dparm
polyolefin polyamine succinimide, polyol: 1-5% (PAO)


Actually this is not PAO - it's a dispersant additive.

Tom NJ

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Liqui-Moly's German website says it is "fully synthetic", not "synthetic technology" (which is where they list the group III HC oils).


+1 If they put Vollsynthetisch on the label it is illegal under German law to put any GpIII or other dino oil in the jug.

 

[dparm]

That's debatable, Trav. I'm fairly certain even the high-end European oils (rich in group IV/V) still contain group III. The law is probably worded to the effect of "the dominant component can't be group III", meaning you could in theory have 51% PAO and 49% group III.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dparm
That's debatable, Trav. I'm fairly certain even the high-end European oils (rich in group IV/V) still contain group III.


For solubility purposes, it would be hard to avoid at least some Group III.

 

[Trav]

I will try to find the law but if i remember correctly under German law would consider 51/49% a blend or part synthetic.
German laws have very few loopholes and there is very little wiggle room.

There is..
Full synthetic
Part synthetic
Synthetic from hydrocracked base HC


Edit:
Quote:
Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high-quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005, production of GTL (gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began, the best of which perform much like polyalphaolefin. Group III-base stocks are widely permitted to be marketed as synthetic motor oil with few exceptions where they are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" (for example, Germany).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

 

[dparm]

Ignoring the somewhat high price, what's the consensus? I would assume this is mostly group IV. The high VI is certainly looking good for a 0w30 of HTHS 3.5+. Wondering how this oil will stand up to abuse and hard driving.

BTW I misspoke, it's closer to $8/qt.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Ignoring the somewhat high price, what's the consensus? I would assume this is mostly group IV. The high VI is certainly looking good for a 0w30 of HTHS 3.5+. Wondering how this oil will stand up to abuse and hard driving.

BTW I misspoke, it's closer to $8/qt.


I know a guy who races his Jetta TDI wagon (it's far from stock) who used/uses 0w30 503.01/506.01 oil and 0w30 502.00/505.00. He's at about 280 ft-lb / 180 HP, engine is still fine.

Granted he's not revving as high as most sparkers (only 5500 RPM), but the forces from torque and diesel combustion are higher.

 

[dparm]

If I go for this oil I'm definitely pulling a sample at 2500 to see how it is holding up.

Dividing the HTHS over the dynamic viscosity @ 150C shows it could have very good shear resistance, maybe close to that of some of the more exotic race oils like 300V or Redline, and even RLI.