I know MMO is pretty thin stuff. How much would a full quart added to a 4 quart sump drop the viscosity of the mixture do you guys think? Does anyone know the actual kinematic viscosity of MMO at operating temps?
Thanks
Thanks
MMO affect on viscosity
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http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/227/
Think I found my answer. Perhaps the butt dyno affects are partly from the oil thinning out a grade with MMO?
I wouldn't feel to comfortable using it for an entire oil change interval if it really does thin the oil down that much.
Think I found my answer. Perhaps the butt dyno affects are partly from the oil thinning out a grade with MMO?
I wouldn't feel to comfortable using it for an entire oil change interval if it really does thin the oil down that much.
I only add 12 oz of MMO to a 5 qt sump
JHZR2
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There are a few questions to be asked to make the determination:
-Does it really matter at normal dosing rates (no offense, just a question of practicality)?
-What is the chemical composition or distillation profile?
-What is the effective viscosity of the heavy fraction that remains in oil at normal temperatures?
If a good deal flashes off, it may be a non-issue after one cycle up to full oil temperature. if it is truly all light HCs, it may either flash completely and early or stay in there longer due to overall time at temperature.
-Does it really matter at normal dosing rates (no offense, just a question of practicality)?
-What is the chemical composition or distillation profile?
-What is the effective viscosity of the heavy fraction that remains in oil at normal temperatures?
If a good deal flashes off, it may be a non-issue after one cycle up to full oil temperature. if it is truly all light HCs, it may either flash completely and early or stay in there longer due to overall time at temperature.
MMO is about a 3-5 weight.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
Last edited:
I don't use MMO, or at least haven't had to.
But, from the MSDS about 60% is stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) and I'd agree this is likely:
"if a good deal flashes off, it may be a non-issue after one cycle up to full oil temperature."
and further this:
"Does it really matter at normal dosing rates"
But, from the MSDS about 60% is stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) and I'd agree this is likely:
"if a good deal flashes off, it may be a non-issue after one cycle up to full oil temperature."
and further this:
"Does it really matter at normal dosing rates"
I put together an excel spreadsheet that will blend the two different viscosities for you. Just input the numbers in Peach color. Of course you will have to find the actual viscosity of MMO which you could maybe find the viscosities of straight 5 weight and play with those numbers.
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6pX...2ZDVk&hl=en
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6pX...2ZDVk&hl=en
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
MMO is about a 3-5 weight.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
I typically run a full qt in a 5 or 6 qt sump during the winter. If I plan on doing some light cleaning or maint I'll add a pint for the last 1000 miles of the summer OCI. If I did a full qt dose during the winter, many times I'll skip the MMO during the summer. Over the years I have run a full qt during the summer months without issue, but as already mentioned I usually hold that off till winter time.
MMO is about a 3-5 weight.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
I typically run a full qt in a 5 or 6 qt sump during the winter. If I plan on doing some light cleaning or maint I'll add a pint for the last 1000 miles of the summer OCI. If I did a full qt dose during the winter, many times I'll skip the MMO during the summer. Over the years I have run a full qt during the summer months without issue, but as already mentioned I usually hold that off till winter time.
Originally Posted By: jstutz
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Thanks! Wow, the stuff is as thin as water.
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Thanks! Wow, the stuff is as thin as water.
Originally Posted By: jstutz
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has these numbers:
40 Degree celcius = 62
100 Degree celcius= 10.5
We will do a 5 quart and a 6 quart oil system and replace a quart of oil with a quart of MMO and see what numbers we get.
1) 4 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius = 51.6
100 Degree Celcius = 8.92
2) 5 Quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius= 53.3
100 Degree Celcius = 9.18
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has these numbers:
40 Degree celcius = 62
100 Degree celcius= 10.5
We will do a 5 quart and a 6 quart oil system and replace a quart of oil with a quart of MMO and see what numbers we get.
1) 4 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius = 51.6
100 Degree Celcius = 8.92
2) 5 Quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius= 53.3
100 Degree Celcius = 9.18
Originally Posted By: c3po
Originally Posted By: jstutz
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has these numbers:
40 Degree celcius = 62
100 Degree celcius= 10.5
We will do a 5 quart and a 6 quart oil system and replace a quart of oil with a quart of MMO and see what numbers we get.
1) 4 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius = 51.6
100 Degree Celcius = 8.92
2) 5 Quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius= 53.3
100 Degree Celcius = 9.18
How did you come up with those numbers? Im getting a different result.
Originally Posted By: jstutz
Just found this for you from a different post
The viscosities I have for MMO per VOA/mmo website are: 2.6cst @100C(blackstone) and 10cst @40C(mmo website)
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has these numbers:
40 Degree celcius = 62
100 Degree celcius= 10.5
We will do a 5 quart and a 6 quart oil system and replace a quart of oil with a quart of MMO and see what numbers we get.
1) 4 quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius = 51.6
100 Degree Celcius = 8.92
2) 5 Quarts of Valvoline 5W-30 dino oil and 1 quart of MMO
40 Degree Celcius= 53.3
100 Degree Celcius = 9.18
How did you come up with those numbers? Im getting a different result.
Originally Posted By: jstutz
How did you come up with those numbers? Im getting a different result.
Valvoline Dino has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 62, so we take 5 quarts times 62 = 310
310 divided by 5 quarts = 62
Now we want to run a quart of MMO, so we have to take a quart of oil away and use 4 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO.
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 62
MMO has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 10
4 quarts of Valvoline Dino times 62 = 248
1 Quart of MMO = 10
248 + 10 = 258
258 DIVIDED by 5 = 51.6
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of MMO = 10
This all adds up to 258
258 Divided by 5 = 51.6
I could not figure out your Spreadsheet, so what kind of numbers are you getting.
How did you come up with those numbers? Im getting a different result.
Valvoline Dino has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 62, so we take 5 quarts times 62 = 310
310 divided by 5 quarts = 62
Now we want to run a quart of MMO, so we have to take a quart of oil away and use 4 quarts of oil and 1 quart of MMO.
Valvoline Dino 5W-30 has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 62
MMO has a 40 Degree Celcius Number of 10
4 quarts of Valvoline Dino times 62 = 248
1 Quart of MMO = 10
248 + 10 = 258
258 DIVIDED by 5 = 51.6
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of oil = 62
1 quart of MMO = 10
This all adds up to 258
258 Divided by 5 = 51.6
I could not figure out your Spreadsheet, so what kind of numbers are you getting.
You cannot just avg the numbers. You have to use Refutas equation or some approximation of it for blending different viscosities. I have cut and pasted a clip from another post that explains it well but you can also look up viscosity on Wikipedia and scroll about halfway down and look for the title Viscosity of blends of liquids and it goes over it as well. There are a few equations out there that will get you pretty close without do quite as much math. Im not sure why you cant figure out the spreadsheet though. Is it locked or something. i have had trouble in the past with it being password protected. If you cant use my spreadsheet, go to this site and put the numbers in there, i think you will be suprised. http://www.rohmax.com/product/rohmax/en/about/calculation-tools/pages/default.aspx
Viscosity blending equations
Calculating the viscosity blending index of a liquid consisting of two or more liquids having different viscosities is a two step procedure. The first step involves calculation of the Viscosity Blending Index (VBI) of each component of the blend using the following equation (known as a Refutas equation):
(1) VBI = 14.534 × ln[ln(v + 0.8)] + 10.975
where v is the viscosity in centistokes and ln is the natural logarithm (Loge).
The second step involves using this equation:
(2) VBIBlend = [wA × VBIA] + [wB × VBIB] + ... + [wX × VBIX]
where w is the weight fraction (i.e., % ÷ 100) of each component of the blend. In using the above blending equation, it is necessary that all viscosities are determined at the same temperature, for example, 100 oC.
(Reference: Robert E. Maples (2000), Petroleum Refinery Process Economics, 2nd Edition, Pennwell Books, ISBN 0-87814-779-9)
Once the viscosity blending number of a blend is obtained with equation (2), the viscosity of the blend can be determined by using the invert of equation (1):
(3) v = ee(VBN - 10.975) ÷ 14.534 - 0.8
where VBN is the viscosity blending number of the blend and e is the transcendental number 2.71828, also known as Euler's number.
Viscosity blending equations
Calculating the viscosity blending index of a liquid consisting of two or more liquids having different viscosities is a two step procedure. The first step involves calculation of the Viscosity Blending Index (VBI) of each component of the blend using the following equation (known as a Refutas equation):
(1) VBI = 14.534 × ln[ln(v + 0.8)] + 10.975
where v is the viscosity in centistokes and ln is the natural logarithm (Loge).
The second step involves using this equation:
(2) VBIBlend = [wA × VBIA] + [wB × VBIB] + ... + [wX × VBIX]
where w is the weight fraction (i.e., % ÷ 100) of each component of the blend. In using the above blending equation, it is necessary that all viscosities are determined at the same temperature, for example, 100 oC.
(Reference: Robert E. Maples (2000), Petroleum Refinery Process Economics, 2nd Edition, Pennwell Books, ISBN 0-87814-779-9)
Once the viscosity blending number of a blend is obtained with equation (2), the viscosity of the blend can be determined by using the invert of equation (1):
(3) v = ee(VBN - 10.975) ÷ 14.534 - 0.8
where VBN is the viscosity blending number of the blend and e is the transcendental number 2.71828, also known as Euler's number.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
MMO is about a 3-5 weight.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
I was just gonna say that in the winter, you would be fine as a thinner oil is better for start ups and such (assuming you get a cold winter) but for the summer I would either add a lesser doasage, or compensate with a thicker oil for your oci.
MMO is about a 3-5 weight.
In summer, I'd add a thicker oil to compensate.
In winter, it may be a good thing that can be left alone. I did this.
MMO's website says there is no problem, but it is smart to compensate in hot weather or tough conditions.
I was just gonna say that in the winter, you would be fine as a thinner oil is better for start ups and such (assuming you get a cold winter) but for the summer I would either add a lesser doasage, or compensate with a thicker oil for your oci.
I would say something like 24oz. would be a better bet, which is basically 20%. This is what I'd do; 2.25qts 5w30, 1qt 40wt, and .75qt MMO.
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