Gislaved Nordfrost 5 Tire Failures

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On my BMW I have Gislaved Nordfrost 5 winter tires. I have had them for three winters now and they are the best thing in the snow I have ever seen. However, in those three winters I have had three failures of the tires. The first one my daughter was driving nearby our house on city streets at low speed, and the right rear tire suddenly went flat and by the time she stopped the outside sidewall was shredded on the wheel. The second failure was on the front, where after being parked for a while it was found flat. The tire store said there was a “cut” in the sidewall, not a knife cut but some other type of cut.

The third failure happened last week. I was a bit late this year putting on the summer tires and she drove the car up to Green Bay, a couple of hours away on the interstate. About half way there the car starts fishtailing and bottom line, the left rear tire is shredded on the outside sidewall. She said she didn’t see anything in the road and didn’t hit anything.

These are new tires. With the two previous failures and two other new ones I bought before having to rebuild the front suspension, all four are relatively new. But the three failures are making me worried, if that would have happened on the front at 70 MPH she could have been hurt or killed.

One thing that I am wondering about is the recommended tire inflation pressure. The BMW has asymmetrical pressures with 33 in the front and 41 in the rear for this type of tire. The maximum pressure on the tire is 44 PSI. It wasn’t that warm last week and the previous failure where the sidewall shredded was in the winter.

What could cause this type of failure? I can post pictures later but essentially the entire outside sidewall is shredded and she was slithering around on the rim.

I’m at the point that regardless how good they are in the snow I am beginning to not trust them. Her drive next year to college and back is four hours and I’m not sure I want her to do that this with these tires. I'm almost thinking of buying four all seasons and be done with it.
 
What was the manufacturing date on these tires? It is coded on the sidewall. The Gislaved are top quality tires.
If the temp is consistently over 40F, winter tires should be switched to summer. I am not surprised thay failed on a longer trip. They may have had heat damage from a previous trip. Undetectable until they fail. I know we had temps in May in the 80s.
Comment from a web review.
"Although like the video states, they are soft, as soon as the temp goes over 10 deg.C , they will handle like HP all seasons, but wear out real fast, so go easy on them during warm winter days. They also have holes for studs."
 
Have you done some research on the web to see if others are experiencing similar issues with this tire model?

If no others are having this issue, then it is most likely related to your car and the way it's driven. Did all these failures happen on your daughter's watch? Not to question her driving abilities, but can you be sure she didn't curb the tires in some way that would damage the sidewall? Seeing how my own wife drives, nothing would surprise me.
frown.gif


Also, are you sure those tire pressure figures are correct? Mine has two sets of recommended pressures listed. One is for a fully loaded car (5 passengers, full trunk) and it is indeed as high as yours. But for normal driving with just a couple of people, there is a second, much lower recommended PSI listed. Still, I don't think too high of a pressure would cause the problem. It's typically too low of a pressure that causes tire overheating and failure.

FYI, I have an older version of this tire (Nordfrost 3 aka. General Altimax Arctic) on my 530i. I've had them for 4 winters now and never had any issues with them. Alas, I don't use them during spring/summer/fall.
 
There are two common factors:
1. Gislaved tires
2. Your daughter

Having seen several tires where the sidewall was cut (from a curb encounter, road debris) and the teenage driver didn't notice anything, I would not suspect the tires.

The comment "by the time she stopped" is telling...she is driving on a tire that went flat...and doesn't stop. So, if she barely notices flat, how would she notice a small bump in the sidewall?

An example: a cut went through both layers of cord in the sidewall of a Continental tire and damaged the steel wheel. The teenage driver in question said, "I felt a little bump, but it didn't feel bad"...of course, the teenage driver didn't get out and look, but I saw the rubber flap from the curb when I walked past the car that evening. Had our teenager driven farther on a tire held up only by the butyl liner, I suspect it would have turned into a blowout as your tires did.

The sidewall will be shredded after traveling only a few yards on a fully deflated tire...destroying the evidence of the previous sidewall damage. You already have evidence of a sidewall cut on the tire that went flat in the parking lot...that wasn't the only time that this car hit a curb...
 
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Curious, what size are they? I've had poor luck with the bead on my low-profile winter tires -- had two beads fail at different times. The guy at Discount Tire said a lower profile puts more pressure on the bead and hence they're more prone to fail.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
There are two common factors:
1. Gislaved tires
2. Your daughter


I have 3 daughters...they are like kryptonite to tires.
15.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Curious, what size are they? I've had poor luck with the bead on my low-profile winter tires -- had two beads fail at different times. The guy at Discount Tire said a lower profile puts more pressure on the bead and hence they're more prone to fail.
I think that depends on the rim size. I have 15x7s with 205 60s (my own personal upgrade from 14x6s) the bead on the 205-60 does not protrude at all beyond the rim edge. I've seen many "upgrades" where the bead is either pulled in or pushed out to fit "upgraded" rims, though. If the tire and rim are well matched I doubt there is any "extra pressure" .
 
They are 205/65-15, the standard M&S size for the stock BMW wheels.

And yeah she very well could have hit something, I was trying to be careful with the wording of my post not to say for sure she didn't. But this last time I tend to believe her that there wasn't anything on the freeway but who knows. Like you mentioned it could have been cut earlier and ran out of air, causing the failure.

And the comment about “by the time she stopped” is exactly right. She drove “a while” with it flat I’m sure. This time on the freeway she pulled over right away but of course it was way to late to save anything.

I’m pretty sure the pressures are the recommended ones. That tire label is a bit confusing but IIRC that was what it said. I will look again tonight.

The thing about not driving on them in the spring/summer/fall is that although I went longer than usual this year, when she takes it back to school she will be gone from late August to mid-May. It gets warm on various days during that time and she doesn’t come back reliably for me to swap them out. Like I said I might just buy a set of good all-seasons and go with them. Not nearly as good in the snow but maybe less damage prone?

I'll see what the date code is on this tire.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
The thing about not driving on them in the spring/summer/fall is that although I went longer than usual this year, when she takes it back to school she will be gone from late August to mid-May. It gets warm on various days during that time and she doesn’t come back reliably for me to swap them out. Like I said I might just buy a set of good all-seasons and go with them. Not nearly as good in the snow but maybe less damage prone?

Does it snow decent amount where she goes to school? If so, I'd stick with winter tires then. From personal experience, my 530i does not handle winters well with all-seasons. Winter tires are a huge improvement. I don't think you can generally say that all-seasons are less damage prone. It's most likely the driver, I'm afraid.

Next time around, look into something like Nokian WR. These are technically winter tires, but Nokian claims they are "all weather" and can be safely driven on during all seasons of the year. Wife had them on her old Jetta when we lived in Wisconsin, and they were great, alas, they did begin to wear out fairly quickly once she moved to Texas. If you remain up north, they should be fine though.
 
If you ever end up ruling out your daughter as the cause then the next logical thing would be a poorly designed tire possibly a lemon or they were improperly installed.

I would try a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks and report back to us next summer. Mine were well worth the investment. Once they are worn I will try winter tires from Nokian.
 
Maybe you need some tougher sidewalls? I think most snow tires have single nylon ply sidewalls and thinner rubber over them, so any real curb scuffing probably messes them up, plus the sidewalls seem to bulge out more with less shoulder on the tread.
I do have an old set of hercules snow tires with 2 ply sidewalls that look alot tougher. We rarely scuff curbs though so I haven't really tested any of them.
You might actually have to go to a cheaper snow tire to get some toughness.
 
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: Astro14
There are two common factors:
1. Gislaved tires
2. Your daughter


I have 3 daughters...they are like kryptonite to tires.
15.gif



My oldest daughter was the first to drive the everlasting "Bluesmoble." That's when I first got it and it had four brand new tires on it. Tire number one went when it went flat, but her and her friend drove it anyway to Dunkin Donuts because they wanted a donut. She called from the parking lot saying "Daddy, there's something wrong with the tire." I got there and the tire was in pieces. I changed it while they ate donuts.

I bought a new replacement tire. One week later. ONE WEEK - I come home and there is a huge knot on the sidewall of the brand new tire and the wheel is bent. To this day, she says she doesn't know what happened.

Tire number three involves a tractor and a disc-harrow. I can't tell that story without choking up.
 
Yeah, all three failures resulted in a phone conversation along the lines of “the car is acting weird”.

OK so teens/girls destroy tires. I will get a single replacement then and try to manage the summer/winter tradeoff somehow.

I mean, I've had my share of punctures but never this total destruction of a tire.
 
Yeah, sure. She wants one. I'm pretty anti-truck however
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Maybe buy her a truck instead?
smile.gif
 
Sounds like anyone with daughters need to invest in the tire certificate replacements that discount tire offers! Apparently they can pay for themselves in only a week!
 
I have the Altimax Arctics (nordfrost 3) on the Sequoia and they have so far taken a couple HUGE potholes that were hidden under standing water. Other people were changing tires in parking lots just past them. Granted it is truck with larger sidewalls. Great traction tires for winter. Sonata rides on Continental extremewintercontacts in winter. Great tire also but soft sidewalls.

One thing that might help since the car is older is a TPMS so it can at least flag here that there might be a problem. doran tpms . I know some people that use this for their trailers. should work same for cars. One started using it after he lost a trailer tire. He felt a bump but had no here to safely pull over. 20 minutes later second bump and sparks flying from trailer. The bumps were both wheels falling off due to sheared studs.

My dad went low tech and got the valve caps that are red, yellow, green. Obviously no good while driving but quick walk visual before driving. You set pressure correctly and install. if it drops it turns yellow then red.

I saw one ad recently that had same deal of screw on sensors that activated a phone app. Depends where she keeps her cell phone.
 
I have the same Altimax Artics / Nordfrost 3s on my ECHO and they are totally different tires. The sidewalls are stiffer and even the rubber seems different. I noticed it right away when I bought the Artics.

Not saying that's the difference but to me at least, they are very different tires.

Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
I have the Altimax Arctics (nordfrost 3) on the Sequoia and they have so far taken a couple HUGE potholes that were hidden under standing water. Other people were changing tires in parking lots just past them. Granted it is truck with larger sidewalls. Great traction tires for winter. Sonata rides on Continental extremewintercontacts in winter. Great tire also but soft sidewalls.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
On my BMW I have Gislaved Nordfrost 5 winter tires. I have had them for three winters now and they are the best thing in the snow I have ever seen. However, in those three winters I have had three failures of the tires. The first one my daughter was driving nearby our house on city streets at low speed, and the right rear tire suddenly went flat and by the time she stopped the outside sidewall was shredded on the wheel. The second failure was on the front, where after being parked for a while it was found flat. The tire store said there was a “cut” in the sidewall, not a knife cut but some other type of cut.

The third failure happened last week. I was a bit late this year putting on the summer tires and she drove the car up to Green Bay, a couple of hours away on the interstate. About half way there the car starts fishtailing and bottom line, the left rear tire is shredded on the outside sidewall. She said she didn’t see anything in the road and didn’t hit anything.

These are new tires. With the two previous failures and two other new ones I bought before having to rebuild the front suspension, all four are relatively new. But the three failures are making me worried, if that would have happened on the front at 70 MPH she could have been hurt or killed.

One thing that I am wondering about is the recommended tire inflation pressure. The BMW has asymmetrical pressures with 33 in the front and 41 in the rear for this type of tire. The maximum pressure on the tire is 44 PSI. It wasn’t that warm last week and the previous failure where the sidewall shredded was in the winter.

What could cause this type of failure? I can post pictures later but essentially the entire outside sidewall is shredded and she was slithering around on the rim.

I’m at the point that regardless how good they are in the snow I am beginning to not trust them. Her drive next year to college and back is four hours and I’m not sure I want her to do that this with these tires. I'm almost thinking of buying four all seasons and be done with it.


kschachn,

What you have described is what is commonly called a "Run Flat" - as in the tire was operated without inflation pressure because the air was let out. This is usually done by a puncturing object, but occasionally it will be because of an impact with a curb or a pothole.

I know it seems like the odds of this happening are so large that it would be impossible, but I've done the statistics and unfortunately, it is not as rare as you might guess. Would you believe that your experience is about 1% probable?

"Didn't hit anything?" I have a friend who punctured a tire with an open end wrench. It was about 6" long. If he didn't see that, why would anyone see a 3" long nail?

Sorry for your problems, but it is quite likely you were a victim of the statistics - but I will not discount the possibility that your daughter is part of this equation..
 
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