Advice: Just lost 2 engines pre-100k miles

[shredguy]

I run a medium sized shredding company. We have 10 mobile shredding trucks that drive around town shredding paper. They idle and run PTO a LOT.

The problem is that the trucks do not seem to last. We do all regular maintenance based on miles...I am starting to think that this is the problem. We recently lost 2 engines, a Freightliner at 90k and an International at 80k, and we really need to stem the problem before it gets worse.

We use all medium duty trucks. Sterling, Freightliner, International. We've lost an engine in all 3 brands.

I am hoping someone can recommend how I should tweak our maintenance schedule. Currently we base it around miles according to the manual. I'm considering changing it to an hours based system, but not sure what number to use in that conversion.

Our trucks average 11-14 truck hours per truck miles. So you can see they are stationary a LOT while they shred. We do oil changes every 3 months and the rest of the PM is based on miles.

Any advice would be appreciated. Our dealerships have been little help thus far in recommendations.

 

[m37charlie]

What type engines, what year?

Charlie

 

[millerbl00]

For every 1 min. Idle time is like 1 mile on the road. So based on that they engine time is probable over 200k.

 

[Lead Shoes]

You aren't doing any sort of oil analysis???

I wouldn't go by miles by any means if you are spending 10+ hours per mile...

 

[SatinSilver]

Yeah, definitely start changing the oil by the hours. I believe it's every 400 hours for gassers. I'm sure diesels are a bit longer. What oil is being used? Hopefully, not cheap generic bulk oil.

 

[440Magnum]

Even with that kind of usage it doesn't seem like you should be losing engines.

Like M37Charlie said- engine manufacturers? (we can guess based on truck brand, but they could all 3 be the same engine for all we really know).

And what kind of failure EXACTLY constitutes "losing" the engine in each case? Rod through the side of the block? Powerstroke-style coolant fountain and blown head gaskets?

 

[Donald]

I would install an hour meter and do some oil analysis.

What ruins the engine?

What make engine? Gas/diesel.?

 

[d00df00d]

to BITOG, OP!

I unfortunately have nothing to add at this point, but I'm in to see what others have to say. :]

 

[cchase]

I would definitely agree that this is a case to use oil analysis to determine how long you should be running the oil.

If usage is consistent, install an hour meter and perform analysis to determine a condemnation point for the oil.

 

[Phishin]

Let me get this straight......

You are "loosing" engines at 80k and 90k miles. Ok. So based on an average of 35MPH while driving (I gotta start somewhere), the 90k mile engine has been running down the road for 2570 hours.

Now, you said the trucks idle approximately 12 hours for every 1 hour driven. Ok. 2570 hours x 12 = 30840 hours of idle time.

If we assume that every minute of "idling" (driving a PTO) is equal to approximately 1 mile driven: 30840 hours of idle x 60 minutes/hr = 1,850,400 minutes of idling, which is also the equivalent of 1,850,400 miles of driving.

1,850,400 "miles" of idling + 90,000 miles of actual driving = 1,940,400 Total Miles.

I think you are getting your use out of these engines.

 

[shredguy]

Thanks guys, I'll get all the detailed engine info shortly.

Unfortunately, I'm a sales guy who started a trucking company.

So while I'm very good at growing a business, my trucks are suffering due to my lack of knowledge. I've learned a lot since I've started, but my knowledge is still a drop in the bucket.

The first engine threw a rod, the second one a head gasket. Both were being serviced by Penske.

 

[roadrunner1]

Even at changing every three months you shouldn't be exceeding 500 hrs., which should be within operating parameters.

Whatever the failures were from here on out oil analysis needs to be done to obtain condemnation limits.

When these trucks are working are they run on high-idle?

Are they DPF equipped?

Are the manufacturers giving reason for the failure(s)?

 

[IndyIan]

Just go with hours, like a tractor. Some hour meters can be scaled with rpms but oil changes are cheap compared to rebuilds...
Also what's the failure from? Low idle is not ideal for diesels, maybe bump the minimum idle speed up a bit higher for higher engine and oil temperatures?

So how often was pennske changing the oil? Going by miles it could've been more than a year, at 50 miles per day and 2000+ hrs running time on a change?

 

[Cardenio327]

The operator's manual for each engine will have an alternate maintenance schedule based on hours. Any newer electronic diesel engine can be scanned to access the total hours on the engine. If you want to spend a little extra and have the hours easily accessible, install hour meters. If you no longer have the operator's manuals divide your OCI mileage by 50 to get the amount of engine hours for your OCI.

Many medium duty trucks come with weak engines. Remember the T444E? Great engine for a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, terrible engine for a truck. Try to order the trucks with engines known for reliability.

 

[shredguy]

Wow, thanks for noticing my error.

I had my numbers transposed. We average 11-14 miles per truck hour. Big difference.

For instance, my 2008 Sterling Acterra has 131k miles, 12,017 truck hours.

 

[Donald]

If the oil is coming out looking like driveway sealer, the mechanic should have figured something out awhile ago.

 

[millerbl00]

Originally Posted By: shredguy
Wow, thanks for noticing my error.

I had my numbers transposed. We average 11-14 miles per truck hour. Big difference.

For instance, my 2008 Sterling Acterra has 131k miles, 12,017 truck hours.


12,017 hours is well past the limit for most engines.

 

[eljefino]

I'd start by carefully sealing your air intake or getting one of those centrifugal pre-filters if you don't have one already. Probably kicking up dust with all the shredding, which you could be ingesting.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: millerbl00
Originally Posted By: shredguy
Wow, thanks for noticing my error.

I had my numbers transposed. We average 11-14 miles per truck hour. Big difference.

For instance, my 2008 Sterling Acterra has 131k miles, 12,017 truck hours.


12,017 hours is well past the limit for most engines.

Yep, it is idling hours mostly though, and in some Ag and industrial applications, the motors last atleast that long and are working much closer to their maximum.
Perhaps it pencils out for a more durable engine in the trucks initially? As probably the rest of the truck is fine for many more years?

 

[shredguy]

Originally Posted By: millerbl00

12,017 hours is well past the limit for most engines.


Here are the exact numbers on the engines we just had to rebuild/replace. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought it was.

2010 International 4400 Maxxforce 285hp
113k miles, 8800 truck hours
Threw a rod, full engine replacement.

2011 Freightliner M2
Cummins ISB 240hp
82,199 miles, 7120 truck hours
Blew Head Gasket, full engine rebuild.

Fortunately, both were under Penske Full Maintenance, so they paid for most of it. (Though they tried not too, I had to threaten to sue them to get them to pay for it.)