Stick with M1 EP or Try M1 AFE?

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Hey, what's up guys.

Been thinking about trying the AFE for my next OC which is due in about 2500 miles.

Vehicle: 07 Tacoma, V6
Miles: 101,500
OEM viscosity recommendation: 5W-30
Current fill: M1 EP 5/30
Current OCI: 7500
Usage: light, little towing/hauling, mostly cruising in 50-70 mph with a few shorter trips per week.

I've owned the truck since new and I've always used M1 of some variety since draining the FF @ 3K, whether standard M1, Truck & SUV variant, or EP.

It's had nothing but EP since about 50-60K. I haven't looked at many UOAs on it, but I think it's a pretty good oil, based on the fact that the truck seems to run well on it, and doesn't use any oil.

I'm going to send a sample to Blackstone next time I drain it.

Anyway, I'd like to hear some opinions. I'm hesitant to switch away from the EP - if it ain't broke why fix it.

Advantages/disadvantages to AFE vs. EP?

Or, if y'all would like to throw out suggestions for any other oils? I've been reading a lot in the VOA and UOA sections and I've become intrigued by some of the oils with very high VI and TBN... Any thoughts on a 0W-20 and the effects or potential negatives with using one of these newer, lighter oils?
 
From what I've read on this site mazda's new 0w-20has a very high viscosity index,and really high moly count.
Go to caterham's profile and search his comments. That guy knows this stuff really well. His posts are getting me off my thick is better thinking since he posts fact based on data,not feelings or butt dyno.
Perhaps pm him,or he may even answer in this thread.
 
You don't need M1 EP if your OCI is 10k miles or less. If you want to try 0W20 then either Mazda or Toyota are the ones to buy, whichever is cheaper.
 
What HTSS_TR said. Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30 would flow better on startup and potentially be a better oil for lubrication concerns and maybe a little fuel economy, that's probably it. Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20 would be good too but if you can get Toyota or the new Mazda 0W-20 they're the "hot stuff" to have in a 20 weight.

As for running a 20 well, there's always concerns about getting a bad UOA with it, but its worth a try. I wouldn't run it without getting a UOA.
 
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.
I'd try 0W-30 AFE and see how it works in your use.
It should be fine.
OTOH, PP would also be a very good oil to try, and would be the equal of either M1 flavor in your use.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.
I'd try 0W-30 AFE and see how it works in your use.
It should be fine.
OTOH, PP would also be a very good oil to try, and would be the equal of either M1 flavor in your use.


+1
I would have no qualms trying AFE 0w30. I would not use any 20grade, I am not saying it will ruin your engine but just stick to the 30grades. If you look at the VI, I believe M1 5w30 is a little higher, but you are splitting hairs unless you drive in the arctic circle.
 
What's your motivation for moving away from the M1 5/30?

What are your expectations of the new oil? (What will it do that the M1 will not)

My vote is stick with what you are doing and do a couple UOA's before changing.
 
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EP is not worth the extra money for your OCI. I run the AFE in my vehicles. Either the 5W Mobil 1 classic or the 0W AFE are great bang for the buck.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
You don't need M1 EP if your OCI is 10k miles or less. If you want to try 0W20 then either Mazda or Toyota are the ones to buy, whichever is cheaper.


Agree, unless your motor tends to dilute or contaminate the fuel badly.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.

Not true. XOM has three levels of anti-wear additives for their non-racing street oils. For example, they publish phosphorus and zinc additive levels:

High performance (0W-40, 5W-50)= 1000/1100
EP/standard (5W-20, 5W-30)= 800/900
AFE (0W-20, 0W-30)= 650/750

That's about a 20% step down in add pack content for each step. There is NO QUESTION that Mobil1's AFEs contain the weakest add packs of any of their oils. This doesn't mean they are bad oils it just means do not mistake them for "extended" range oils like the others. They are designed for max fuel economy, nothing more. So, if you like EP, do not assume that you don't give up anything going to their 0W oils. Hint: there are better fortified 0W oils on the market.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
AFE comes in a 0W-30 flavor and that's what you should use.
Looking at the UOAs here, the AFE seems superior to vanilla M1 and probably equal to EP.

Not true. XOM has three levels of anti-wear additives for their non-racing street oils. For example, they publish phosphorus and zinc additive levels:

High performance (0W-40, 5W-50)= 1000/1100
EP/standard (5W-20, 5W-30)= 800/900
AFE (0W-20, 0W-30)= 650/750

That's about a 20% step down in add pack content for each step. There is NO QUESTION that Mobil1's AFEs contain the weakest add packs of any of their oils. This doesn't mean they are bad oils it just means do not mistake them for "extended" range oils like the others. They are designed for max fuel economy, nothing more. So, if you like EP, do not assume that you don't give up anything going to their 0W oils. Hint: there are better fortified 0W oils on the market.


Correction here. AFE has the same high temp and low temp ratings according to XM as EP, and higher fuel rating than both EP and reg M1. AFE also is rated higher by XM than reg M1 in the high temp and low temp areas. This is according to the back of the bottle. As for OCI, AFE has the standard 10K warranty, the same as reg M1. Yes, AFE oils are designed for max fuel MPG, but their base stock is very good with a MRV @ -40C of 9200(0-20) showing an outstanding base stock with few equals.
 
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Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.
 
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


Read the back of the bottle. Also HTO-06 is for 5-30, the only oil XM certified for Honda. Doesn't mean other oils won't meat the spec. XM only certifies what engine builders want. Not their intire line. For example. M1 5-30 was spec for Corvette(4718) but 5-30EP wasn't. I talked to Mobil tech and they told me EP will pass 4718 but that's not the Vette customer oil target. EP being for longer drains so they didn't certify it for Vetts. Also the HTO-06 is a high temp spec for low deposite for the turbo. I fail to see where ZDDP differances in grades makes one oil superior to another in this age of changing wear properities.
It's also interesting that the SN formulation of 5-30EP now carries the HTO-06 and 4718 Vette spec. Things change.
 
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Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


The reason AFE doesn't have the HT0-6 spec because the oil has to be a 5w-30 for the spec requirements. There was information that AFE used superior base stocks for the low mrv and cold weather specs.

EP>AFE>M1?
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Since it's "fact-checking" season, I just took a quick look at the HTHS specs and AFE 30 is lower than plain ol' 5W-30 so I don't see where you're getting your info about better high temp specs. 5W-30 is also the only M1 certified for HTO-06. And XOM tells us it has 20% more Phos and zinc. It's an easy call by the data.

EP>M1>AFE

Unless your priority is the specialized blending target of AFE, a slightly thinner start up visc and 2% better fuel mileage at the expense of anti-wear add pack.


AFE is on par with EP, per XOM's comments and High Temperature protection. But you're really just nit picking at that level.
 
30 AFE also has 12.5% more SA, reputed to be the source of deposits in DI and turbo engines. Do you have data that shows it will pass HTO-06?
 
Originally Posted By: buster
[ AFE is on par with EP, per XOM's comments and High Temperature protection. But you're really just nit picking at that level.

I've just point out it has 20% less anti-wear additives and a lower HTHS rating. If these are the conclusions you draw from that data, so be it.
 
Quote:
Mobil actually has three separate synthetic tiers: a base tier with Mobil Super Synthetic; a premium tier with Mobil 1; and an "ultimate" tier with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy and Mobil 1 Extended Performance full-synthetic motor oils filling that niche.


http://www.noln.net/features/feature3-1_0411.php
 
Quote:
The differences between a bottom-tier full synthetic like Mobil Super Synthetic and a premium synthetic like Mobil 1 is dependent on the base oil and additives used.


Quote:
Mobil Super Synthetic is a full-synthetic product that does what most synthetics do: provides outstanding protection, especially at high temperatures, and reduces engine wear and sludge formation. But it does so at a great value for consumers," Omar said.
 
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