10w30 "better" than 5w30

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Is 10w30 a "better" choice for older (1994-2004) higher mileage (100k+) automobiles than 5w30? If so, why?
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
It provides no advantage unless it is on sale.


Agree, ha ha.

You're asking a very general question looking for a specific answer when the variation is all over the map between 5W-30's alone.

If you were asking a specific question say pertaining to M1 then the answer would be a definite no unless you're a very long OCI and then perhaps you might have an advantage with the 10W-30 but I doubt it. Reason; M1 5W-30 vis at 100C is 11.3 cSt while their 10W-30 is "only" 10.0 cSt.
 
All else being equal, a 10w-30 will use less VIIs making it more desirable for an engine that is run hard.
 
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.


Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w-30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.


Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w-30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.


You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5W-30 uses lighter base oils that their 10W-30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.


Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w-30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.


You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5W-30 uses lighter base oils that their 10W-30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.


I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say awesome.
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Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.


Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w-30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.


You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5W-30 uses lighter base oils that their 10W-30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.


I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.


Red Line's 5W-20 has no VII's and with a HTHS vis of 3.3 cP it's certainly more robust than the spec' oil for the TL. Running their 10W-30 which outperforms all dino 40 wt's is like wearing a belt and suspenders. How geeky is that!.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I think 10W-30 is usually a more "stable" viscosity in most cases, but when you look at RedLine oils, their 5W-30 doesn't give up any NOACK or HTHS to their 10W-30.

With oils like PP, SynPower, etc. there is a notable advantage for the 10W-30s. Their 10W-30s are less volatile and less shear prone, I'm assuming this is a result of the VIIs.


Agreed. If I could find out if Redline 5w-30 also uses no VIIs, I might try that since there would seem to be no downside.


You could give Dave a call at Red Line and get a quick answer, but I believe RL's 5W-30 uses lighter base oils that their 10W-30 and therefore does contain some VII.
I've run both RL grades and in practice I can't tell any difference between the two grades; they're just too close.


I'm going to have to call him and quit being lazy. I can't run an oil with VIIs because this car is an experiment of running a car for it's entire life span without VIIs and on a heavier than specified oil. I'm very curious to see what the ring lands look like when it gets torn down.



I was mistaken, RL's 5W-30 doesn't contain any VII, their 0W-30 oil does.
To quote Dave at Red Line, "Our 5W20, 5W30 and 10w30 do not contain any VI improver. Our 0W30 does contain a shear stable VI improver. Just some of our very broad viscosity oils require the thickener."

Which begs the question; if you can formulate a 5W-30 without VII's and with the same HTHS and 100C vis but with a higher VI than your 10W-30, doesn't that make your 10W-30 product obsolete?
I think the answer is yes technically but no from a marketing perspective. I suspect the 10W-30 costs less to formulate, therefore your profit margin is higher since you're selling it for the same price as your 5W-30.

Even the best 5W-30 dino's are very shear stable. Conclusion, I think 10W-30 is pretty much an obsolete grade.
 
Perhaps RedLine's 10W-30 is obselete, but one glance at PP's, SynPower's, or any conventional oil's PDS shows that 10W-30 isn't obselete. All of those 5W-30s have notable disadvantges in NOACK and usually HTHS over their 10W-30 counterparts.
 
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10W-30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.

Another good example would be GC 0W-30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30.

The Devil as they say is in the details!
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10W-30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.

Another good example would be GC 0W-30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30.

The Devil as they say is in the details!


The devil is in the details, but I will say that within brands, that almost any GF-4/SM 10W-30 will be more robust than its GF-4/SM 5W-30 counterpart. GC being a non-ILSAC (or GF-3?) ACEA A3 oil is playing on a different court than its Syntec brothers, and if they are using VIIs to get that 0W-30 (and I bet they are), then a 10W-30 version of GC would likely be more robust still.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Ben99GT you're right. But there's enough variation in 30 wt oils that to draw a blanket conclusion that a 10W-30 is "better" or presumably more robust would be an incorrect assumption.

Another good example would be GC 0W-30 which is more robust than both Syntec 5W-30 and 10W-30.

The Devil as they say is in the details!




I concede this one. I'll be switching to Redline 5w-30 at the next OCI. It's a no brainer, you're not giving up any HTHS, I *believe* the 5w-30 is ever so slightly thicker at 100C, and it flows better when cold. In this case you're right, Redline 10w-30 is obsolete. I thank you for the info!

However, as you stated, most 10w-30s are not obsolete with the lesser base oils. BTW, I'm wanting to switch now. I may drain the current fill with 1,000 miles and put it in my mother's car which is due and order the 5w-30 now. I hate this OCD!
 
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