VW and Audi oil sludge issues . . .

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2x

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http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=948&scid=122

Looks like Audi/VW is suffering from the same issues as Toyota and Dodge did. Those of you who own one of these and were thinking about an extended OCI think twice about that decision and what oil you use
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quote:

Originally posted by 2x:
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=948&scid=122

Looks like Audi/VW is suffering from the same issues as Toyota and Dodge did. Those of you who own one of these and were thinking about an extended OCI think twice about that decision and what oil you use
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Does the sludge build on the heads where you can see it though the oil fill, or does it hide deep in the bowels of the engine?
 
I find it interesting that VW of America requires 5,000 mile oil changes, however Audi of America recommends 10,000 mile oil changes. In the VW letter, it mentions you must be able to prove an oil change every 5K/6 months, however, in the Audi letter, there is no such reference.

Since this is the same engine, you would think they would be the same.
 
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.
 
Isn't the problem turbocharger related? My local VW dealer uses bulk 76 5W-30 with 5000 mile ODI unless synthetic oil is specifically asked for.


Ken
 
When I owned my 03 A4 1.8T. My local dealer used Havoline 5W-30 for their 10K service. I say 90% of VW/Audi dealers use bulk dino oil for their oil changes. It goes against everything they print in the owners manual for the turbo motors.
 
From most recent Lube Report;
"Oil Sludge Bedevils VW
In an effort to address engine problems caused by oil sludge, Volkswagen of America recently extended warranty coverage on two models of turbocharged cars, news reports say. The company mailed notices to approximately 425,000 owners of VW Passats and Audi A4s, but declined to project the cost of the program."

More follows.
 
The headline of all those articles should say, "API oil SUCKS". The oil pump pick-up is what gets clogged. My cuz went from zero-maintenance Rabitts and Jettas to 1.8t Passat and snapped a TB at 175k. Mechanic (not mine) put it together with new valves and TB to find low OP. Too bad for her. Her husband is a Navy pilot and should have known better. Moral is: you cannot help those who don't want help. Also my female friend who used Mobil 1 5w-30 at 10,000/1 yr needed a pump in her 1.8t at 65k. She used a local monkey-garage, green antifreeze, etc...they probally ripped her and put in extra-sludgy oil.
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Audi Junkie, agreed, "API sucks", at least the licensing game.


Note: not one of my customers running those engines has a sludge issue and some sample only annually.

Secret, spend the cash to periodically flush with Auto-Rx and then run LC to control oxidation. Won't matter what oil you run. You won't have a sludge issue.

TD
 
Lube report article

I have a buddy that just bought a Toyota....he's asking me...: "Why do the receipts show the engine being torn down at 50K?" and "What is this sludge problem, there sure is lots of chat on the web about it ?"

Use a good oil, use some cleaners if you use a petroleum oil or push the OCI limit.
 
quote:

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.

That's interesting because when I replaced the t-stat in my 2000 A4 2.8 30V V6, the guy asked what the engine code was. My ATQ engine used a higher temp t-stat than the AHA engine, which is essentially the same but the version before mine.

I'm surprised that their having sludge issues. Seems out of the ordinary for VW/Audi engines.
 
I think it was only a matter of time before the sh$t hit the fan for 1.8T engines. Long before this letter came out, VW owners on vwvortex and clubb5 were wondering what VW dealers were thinking using dino oil in a turbo engine with a 3.9 quart sump.

I think if all dealers followed the owners manual and usd VW502 oil the 5k OCI was not exceeded, this engine would be fine. But combine dino oil with 5k changes or any oil with 10k changes, and we could have predicted this outcome.

As for Audi, my guess is that the 10k OCI recommendation is a product of the free 50k maintenance. Hey, 10k changes save them money over 5k changes and will get the average owner through the warranty period. A good, if not crooked, business move.
 
quote:

Originally posted by dB:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
This is what happens when you make a design change no matter how small and do not re-validate the powertrain. I would not be suprised to find out that they too pushed up coolant temps in the head area to get better emissions.

That's interesting because when I replaced the t-stat in my 2000 A4 2.8 30V V6, the guy asked what the engine code was. My ATQ engine used a higher temp t-stat than the AHA engine, which is essentially the same but the version before mine.

I'm surprised that their having sludge issues. Seems out of the ordinary for VW/Audi engines.


You're surprised? Welcome to the club. Trust me, a lot of Toyota owners were surprised a few years ago too. Sludge seemed pretty out of character for Toyota also. I guess the moral is that even the best manufacturers are pushing to the very edge of the envelope to achieve competitive performance and emissions goals. So, whether you're driving what's perceived to be a high-quality brand, or an old "disposable" car, you'd better keep ahead of oil changing minimums.
 
Among many others I'd like to say "thanks" to Terry Dyson for his practical advice on the forum regarding ARX and LC for the treatment and prevention of sludge and varnish.
 
One more reason why I change oil and filter every 3,000 miles. The chickens are coming home to roost, extended OCI-ers.

Mercedes-Benz
DaimlerChrysler
Toyota
VW-Audi
BMW

Who's Next?
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quote:

Originally posted by VeeDubb:
I think it was only a matter of time before the sh$t hit the fan for 1.8T engines. Long before this letter came out, VW owners on vwvortex and clubb5 were wondering what VW dealers were thinking using dino oil in a turbo engine with a 3.9 quart sump.

I think if all dealers followed the owners manual and usd VW502 oil the 5k OCI was not exceeded, this engine would be fine. But combine dino oil with 5k changes or any oil with 10k changes, and we could have predicted this outcome.

As for Audi, my guess is that the 10k OCI recommendation is a product of the free 50k maintenance. Hey, 10k changes save them money over 5k changes and will get the average owner through the warranty period. A good, if not crooked, business move.


Agreed 100%. I've written about this on several occassions as well. It was just a matter of time.
It is possible to do 10K mile OCIs on these turbo engines, but it's gotta be a good oil. All the VW/Audis in Europe have been on such OCIs for years and sludge has never come up as an issue. Unless people there just sit quietly and don't talk about it.
 
Eric, you are welcome, its what BITOG is all about !!! Lube Power to the People !

TD
 
Quattro Pete: I've not heard anything about sludge issues here in UK. Audi dealers do seem to know about it the requirement for specific synthetic oils. OCI for some of the engines can be up to 30k miles so it must be an oil quality issue. Moral of the story is to follow mfrs recommendations rather than generic standards such as API, where Group I and II base oils satisfy API SL and CI-4, AFAIK.
 
The V6 & V8 Audi engines have a substantially larger sump than the 4-cyl 1.8t engine. My 2.7t V6 holds 7.4 qts. and the 4.2 V8 holds about 8.2 qts, IIRC. The sump size of the 1.8t was enlarged from 3.8 qts. to 4.3 qts on Audi models around 2001, IIRC. So, a corporate OCI of 10K miles (USA), and variable OCI of between 8K & 19K miles in Europe seems geared toward the larger sump V6s & V8s. Of course, it's best to use a top-quality syn oil in any turbo motor but I think the sump size and 10K OCI has alot to do with the sludging issue of the 1.8t.
 
I just changed oil in an audi with that v8 motor, and I was shocked to see that it took 8.2 quarts. We filled it up right with 0w40 mobil1.

JH
 
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