Passat 2.8L V6 eats 5W-30 like it's nothing!
- Thread starter televascular
- Start date
- Status
me bad too, i meant 30V
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,591
I always love it when folks buy the wrong car.
If you wanted a sewing machine engine you should have gone with the Honda! But no, you had to go with the "problematic German engine" that doesn't even get its oil checked on a common sense basis. I'm predicting difficult times with lots of problems ahead for you and your VW -- and I find it actually quite funny.
That is pretty strange your manual calls for 5W30 or 10W30, because I am pretty sure the V6 called for VW502 and/or ACEA A3; at least my A4 (with the 30V V6) manual calls for that. A 5W30/10W30 that meets VW502 is hard to find. A quick search turned up that, according to Mobil spec sheets, Mobil 1 10W30 High Mileage meets ACEA A3.
Once you look for VW502, the more common over the counter choices are: Mobil 1 0W40, Castrol Syntec 0W30 (made in Germany sold at Autozone -- sometimes hard to find), Castrol Syntec 5W40 or Valvoline 5W40. I think Napa sells the Valvoline 5W40.
Last edited by a moderator:
ahh, it's not the 'R'
that motor has a better flowing head since they wern't trying to fit it in such a tight spot. it's still a rather powerful motor..
That motor or any other motor after the third generation VWs specify a 40 weight oil, 30 weight on rare ocasions and never a 10 weight.
that motor has a better flowing head since they wern't trying to fit it in such a tight spot. it's still a rather powerful motor..
That motor or any other motor after the third generation VWs specify a 40 weight oil, 30 weight on rare ocasions and never a 10 weight.
Quote:
Right. And it ain't a VR6.
LOL!!! . . .
I believe the older Passats had the VR6.
When I used Mobil 1 5W-30 (back before BITOG of course) my VW Jetta 2.0L would use that oil fairly quickly. I currently use 5W-40 and oil consumption is significantly reduced.
Anyways as far as I know the manual should says it is recommended to use 5W-40 and 5W-30 can be used if 5W-40 is not available.
It mentions that the oil designations should appear singly or in combination with other designations. So ideally an oil should meet all of the following.
VW 500, 501 or 502(current)
ACEA A2 or A3
API SJ (whatever is current)
I would suggest Valvoline 5W-40, Castrol Syntec 5W-40 or Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (German Castrol). I don't know if Mobil 1 0W-40 is a good choice although it meets the VW specs. A 5W-30 with the VW approvals is super hard to find, I believe Pennzoil and Quaker State has it, called European formula.
When I used Mobil 1 5W-30 (back before BITOG of course) my VW Jetta 2.0L would use that oil fairly quickly. I currently use 5W-40 and oil consumption is significantly reduced.
Anyways as far as I know the manual should says it is recommended to use 5W-40 and 5W-30 can be used if 5W-40 is not available.
It mentions that the oil designations should appear singly or in combination with other designations. So ideally an oil should meet all of the following.
VW 500, 501 or 502(current)
ACEA A2 or A3
API SJ (whatever is current)
I would suggest Valvoline 5W-40, Castrol Syntec 5W-40 or Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (German Castrol). I don't know if Mobil 1 0W-40 is a good choice although it meets the VW specs. A 5W-30 with the VW approvals is super hard to find, I believe Pennzoil and Quaker State has it, called European formula.
Last edited by a moderator:
You can use Mobil 1 10w-30 if you get the Hi-Miles version w/ the Euro A3 spec. You might want a quart or two of the 10w-40 in the mix to cease the burning in warmer temps. Skip synth for summer and use a 15w-40, Delvac 1300S works nice in my Audi V6s.
Our OP is probally looking at the part where the manual says "filled w/ 0w-30 from the factory". Go ahead and use the German Syntec 0w-30.
A nice oil for that engine is Castrol GTX HM which he can use a 5w-30 in, just like MaxLife Synth. MaxLife 10w-40 dino would be a good all-around oil.
A nice oil for that engine is Castrol GTX HM which he can use a 5w-30 in, just like MaxLife Synth. MaxLife 10w-40 dino would be a good all-around oil.
Hehe. There's nothing I love more than a Volkswagen vs. Honda spat. It's almost a sport of its own! I may sound emotionally connected to what I'm posting, but please don't take offense. I don't mean to insult you personally. Here I go:
Unique engines are nice, but not if they're not reliable.
Honda's engine philosophy is quite the opposite from VW's, but I believe it to be superior. Of course, I am a Honda fan, so my response isn't unbiased. However, if Volkswagen made better engines/cars than Honda, I'd be a VW fanatic. But they don't. When A-VTEC is introduced later this year, it will surpass BMW's fabled Valvetronic step-less cam technology, and even Nissan's new VVEL in the new Infiniti G37.
Several counterpoints:
I own a 2006 Honda Civic Si, with a 2.0L four-cylinder (K20Z3). It pulls 197hp at 7800rpms and 139 lb.ft at 6200rpms; Honda's [naturally aspirated] 100hp/liter mark is the envy of other automaker's engineers, as they've rarely succeeded in doing so with mass-production engines. My ScanGauge also shows me that I consistently get 27-29mpg with moderate redlining. All of this coupled with rock-solid reliability, a super-flat torque curve, and an 8,000rpm redline tells me this engine is on the top of the 2.0L food chain.
I guess I would say BMW holds best overall N/A motor. I should have said "best 2.0L N/A in the world". The closest VW equivalent is the FSI 2.0L turbo'd four-cylinder, like in the MKV GTI. It has gobs of torque, and of course, VW fans take that as a note of superiority. However, if you take the turbo away to make it N/A, it's quite a lackluster motor. Or likewise, if you equalize the playing ground and add a turbo to the K20, it will pull much more horsepower (AJC's turbocharged Si made 263whp on a dynopack, albeit a little unsafely).
As for the VR6 beating an S2000, you're mistaken. The way to truly compare a car's "fastness" is to compare lap times on the same given track, in stock condition with the same tires on both cars. In this case, horsepower is not the victor, but suspension tuning and the harmony of all parts put together. It doesn't matter who has the faster 0-60; a stock S2000 will crush a stock Corrado on a circuit any day.
Case in point, as Top Gear has testified, an AWD 405hp/355lb.ft 2.0L 4-cyl. turbocharged Evo VIII MR FQ400 with Active Yaw Control posts the same lap time as an AWD 6.2L V12 580hp/479ft.lb Lamborghini Murcielago.
Power alone doesn't win races. A heavy Corrado will fall behind a relatively lightweight, superbly balanced and poised S2000 on a track.
But unfortunately, I've been playing with you. A Corrado VR6 posts a 0-60 of 6.4 seconds. The S2000 boasts a 0-60 of 5.5 seconds. A 4-cylinder with no torque beats a 6-cylinder with lots of it? What happened to the "no torque, no go" theory?
I like how you generalize all Honda enthusiasts to be kids.
I'm not sure which two cars you're comparing, but the situation all depends. To bring up the MKV GTI vs. Civic Si example again, they post similar horsepower, but the GTI has TONS more torque... you would think it to be the clear winner. In a 0-120mph test, the GTI stays ahead by about 0.2 seconds until 60mph, and then the Si pulls ahead by many tenths of a second by the time 120mph is reached. This is because the K20 motor has a VTEC jump at 5800rpms, and all power is focused on high-rpm operation. Conversely, the GTI reaches peak torque at a diesel-ish 1800rpms, and runs out of gusto by the time it reaches redline. The K20 sports an 8,000rpm redline, with peak HP at 7800. The torque curve of this motor is flat as a board, and there are no areas of the powerband where it lags in efficiency.
Firstly, Honda utilizes two types of VTECs. One is for increasing fuel economy while sacrificing power, and the other is for increasing power while sacrificing fuel economy. The Civic EX you mentioned is the economy version.
Again, if by "winning a race", you mean "winning in short-distance straight-line acceleration", torque is very important. But speed is not about peak power figures; it's about well-engineered powerbands. Refer to the S2000 vs. VR6 argument.
I'll be surprised if anyone actually stuck through this post and read this line. Congratulations! I look forward to any counter-arguments.
Unique engines are nice, but not if they're not reliable.
Honda's engine philosophy is quite the opposite from VW's, but I believe it to be superior. Of course, I am a Honda fan, so my response isn't unbiased. However, if Volkswagen made better engines/cars than Honda, I'd be a VW fanatic. But they don't. When A-VTEC is introduced later this year, it will surpass BMW's fabled Valvetronic step-less cam technology, and even Nissan's new VVEL in the new Infiniti G37.
Several counterpoints:
I own a 2006 Honda Civic Si, with a 2.0L four-cylinder (K20Z3). It pulls 197hp at 7800rpms and 139 lb.ft at 6200rpms; Honda's [naturally aspirated] 100hp/liter mark is the envy of other automaker's engineers, as they've rarely succeeded in doing so with mass-production engines. My ScanGauge also shows me that I consistently get 27-29mpg with moderate redlining. All of this coupled with rock-solid reliability, a super-flat torque curve, and an 8,000rpm redline tells me this engine is on the top of the 2.0L food chain.
I guess I would say BMW holds best overall N/A motor. I should have said "best 2.0L N/A in the world". The closest VW equivalent is the FSI 2.0L turbo'd four-cylinder, like in the MKV GTI. It has gobs of torque, and of course, VW fans take that as a note of superiority. However, if you take the turbo away to make it N/A, it's quite a lackluster motor. Or likewise, if you equalize the playing ground and add a turbo to the K20, it will pull much more horsepower (AJC's turbocharged Si made 263whp on a dynopack, albeit a little unsafely).
As for the VR6 beating an S2000, you're mistaken. The way to truly compare a car's "fastness" is to compare lap times on the same given track, in stock condition with the same tires on both cars. In this case, horsepower is not the victor, but suspension tuning and the harmony of all parts put together. It doesn't matter who has the faster 0-60; a stock S2000 will crush a stock Corrado on a circuit any day.
Case in point, as Top Gear has testified, an AWD 405hp/355lb.ft 2.0L 4-cyl. turbocharged Evo VIII MR FQ400 with Active Yaw Control posts the same lap time as an AWD 6.2L V12 580hp/479ft.lb Lamborghini Murcielago.
Power alone doesn't win races. A heavy Corrado will fall behind a relatively lightweight, superbly balanced and poised S2000 on a track.
But unfortunately, I've been playing with you. A Corrado VR6 posts a 0-60 of 6.4 seconds. The S2000 boasts a 0-60 of 5.5 seconds. A 4-cylinder with no torque beats a 6-cylinder with lots of it? What happened to the "no torque, no go" theory?
I like how you generalize all Honda enthusiasts to be kids.
I'm not sure which two cars you're comparing, but the situation all depends. To bring up the MKV GTI vs. Civic Si example again, they post similar horsepower, but the GTI has TONS more torque... you would think it to be the clear winner. In a 0-120mph test, the GTI stays ahead by about 0.2 seconds until 60mph, and then the Si pulls ahead by many tenths of a second by the time 120mph is reached. This is because the K20 motor has a VTEC jump at 5800rpms, and all power is focused on high-rpm operation. Conversely, the GTI reaches peak torque at a diesel-ish 1800rpms, and runs out of gusto by the time it reaches redline. The K20 sports an 8,000rpm redline, with peak HP at 7800. The torque curve of this motor is flat as a board, and there are no areas of the powerband where it lags in efficiency.
Firstly, Honda utilizes two types of VTECs. One is for increasing fuel economy while sacrificing power, and the other is for increasing power while sacrificing fuel economy. The Civic EX you mentioned is the economy version.
Again, if by "winning a race", you mean "winning in short-distance straight-line acceleration", torque is very important. But speed is not about peak power figures; it's about well-engineered powerbands. Refer to the S2000 vs. VR6 argument.
I'll be surprised if anyone actually stuck through this post and read this line. Congratulations! I look forward to any counter-arguments.
I'd have to say that after 3 years of reading BITOG, Mobil 1 5W-30 is the worst oil I've ever read about on this board. If there's a thread about valve train noise, high iron readings, or high oil consumption, Mobil 1 5W-30 is always the oil being used.
Don't worry, I read through your entire post. Honda makes wonderful engines. You're right about the S2000 (which coincidentally ties into your post about it having the current record of having the most HP per liter in a N/A engine, IIRC) and I believe also has a 50/50 weight distribution. Fantastic car and very underrated IMO. Volkswagen used to make great cars, I'll give them that. I know my mom always raves about her first car -- a 70's VW Beetle that could get around the world on a tank of gas and never gave her any trouble.
Me too, unless "the day" is over 8 years after the car was manufactured.
Anyways, back to the OP's point.
televascular: you used the wrong oil. Your engine doesn't beat on oil nearly as much as the TDIs or the newer direct injection models. I don't think you necessarily need to move into 15W40 territory. You stated that the "manual just said to use a 5W30 or 10W30 that meets VW/Audi specs". That's what you did NOT do. M1 5W30 doesn't meet those specs. You need a heavier 30 weight that meets ACEA A3 and the VW spec (is that 502.00?).
Give something like GC a try, check your oil more often, and test your PCV system. I have no idea why you consider German *engines* to be problematic. Some people have German cars that have trouble with secondary systems but rarely are engines themselves an issue. ...But I'm not going to get into that debate. My BMW 528i has 137,000km on it and the only repair the engine has needed was one $60, easy DIY sensor for which it brought on the check engine light.
televascular: you used the wrong oil. Your engine doesn't beat on oil nearly as much as the TDIs or the newer direct injection models. I don't think you necessarily need to move into 15W40 territory. You stated that the "manual just said to use a 5W30 or 10W30 that meets VW/Audi specs". That's what you did NOT do. M1 5W30 doesn't meet those specs. You need a heavier 30 weight that meets ACEA A3 and the VW spec (is that 502.00?).
Give something like GC a try, check your oil more often, and test your PCV system. I have no idea why you consider German *engines* to be problematic. Some people have German cars that have trouble with secondary systems but rarely are engines themselves an issue. ...But I'm not going to get into that debate. My BMW 528i has 137,000km on it and the only repair the engine has needed was one $60, easy DIY sensor for which it brought on the check engine light.
Yes, but look how new the S2000 is.. There are over 15+ variations of the VR6 AND your comparing a car more than 13 years newer in technology AND built with performance in mind..just sitting in it and handling the shifter and feeling the weight distribution..but my fault for comparing the s2k against a corrado.
Hondas do have a 'lagging of power' they pull up to redline but they're about as dead before 3k RPM as my car is after 7k RPM. ..not alot of usable power IMO Even with 200 HP
Even with the 200 HP VTEC, on a quarter mile, i wonder how a 200 HP SI would do against a MKV GTI w/ DSG equipped...don't forget, all you need for excellent high RPM performance is a simple camshaft.
Honda tuners generally tend to be 'kids'
Even at the track, there are only a hand full of Hondas which i find tasteful and worthy of my respect.
No replacement for displacement. Look at Audis race winning Diesal..you need TQ to win races.
Hondas do have a 'lagging of power' they pull up to redline but they're about as dead before 3k RPM as my car is after 7k RPM. ..not alot of usable power IMO Even with 200 HP
Even with the 200 HP VTEC, on a quarter mile, i wonder how a 200 HP SI would do against a MKV GTI w/ DSG equipped...don't forget, all you need for excellent high RPM performance is a simple camshaft.
Honda tuners generally tend to be 'kids'
Even at the track, there are only a hand full of Hondas which i find tasteful and worthy of my respect.
No replacement for displacement. Look at Audis race winning Diesal..you need TQ to win races.
You could always try comparing an Integra Type-R with your Corrado. Both are over 13 years old. The Type-R did 0-60 in 6.2 seconds. The fastest VR6 Corrado did 0-60 in 6.3 seconds. I think that would be a really interesting and close race
- Status
Similar threads
