Kohler Command 10w30,anything special?

[Buzzsaw]

Kohler recommends this oil for the command pro engine in my lawn mower. I can buy it locally for $2.69 at Tractor Supply. I wonder who bottles this for Kohler. Here are the specs for this oil.

Command 10W-30
This multi-viscosity oil pumps easily to provide instant lubrication to overhead valve components during start-up. Providing the full protection of an SAE-30 oil at operating temperatures, KOHLER Command universal oil is extremely resistant to viscosity shearing and stays in grade through its normal service life.

An excellent "fleet" oil to use in every piece of equipment.

Exceeds API service rating SJ. Also exceeds MIL-2104E & MIL-46152E, Mack E/O, K/2 Caterpillar TO-2, Cummins NTC 3000 & Allison C-4.

Designed for use in all KOHLER Command, Command PRO, CS, Courage, Aegis and Triad/OHC engines.

 

[Rickey]

Someone else probably knows a lot more about this than I do.
So for what it is worth;

I believe that your Command has hydraulic lifters.
It is reported in various places that the Commands valve train is sensitive to viscosity variations.
And several reports have suggested staying with the recommended oil.
One report stated that the valve train was noisy upon switching to a non-recommended weight of oil.

I have no idea who manufactures the "command" oil, however it sounds like an HDEO type oil such as Rotella T 10W30 or similar.

By the way I have the 20 HP Kohler Courage and it seems to be very tolerant regarding viscosity.
However the courage has solid lifters and is a cheaper build engine.

Rickey

 

[jsharp]

There's probably nothing wrong with the Kohler oil but around here you can buy 10W-30 HDMO Rotella for under $2.50 a quart.

I've seen lots of references on the web to noisy lifters in the Kohler Commands when using heavier oils but a lot more references from people who are using 5W-40's and 15W-40's with no problems. So who knows if the lifter problems are real or web myth.

I've had the shipaway oil in mine, Rotella 10W-30, and a 50/50 mix of Mobil 1 0W-30 M1R and Mobil 1 15W-50EP. It sounds, starts, and runs the same with all of them.

Hey Buzzsaw, how about you buy a quart of the Kohler oil and have a VOA run on it?

 

[bob_ninja]

In my 16hp Command I use ordinary 5W30 for spring/autumn and 15W40 for summer. Haven't noticed any strange noise or problems. Regarding shearing, I do 2 changes per year, so even if oil shears it is removed before it shears much.

15W40 is Castrol GTX or RX diesel version, I forget now. In any case during summer I try to use the diesel version if it is in my stash

 

[bob_ninja]

Forgot to mention, the manual has a range of viscosities available based on ambient temperature. So I am well within the manual recommendations.

I believe 15W40 is recommended for above freezing temps.

 

[jsharp]

Bob, what piece of equipment is ths engine mounted on. I ask, because most of them just use the default Kohler recommendations table and oils heavier than 10W-30 are never mentioned.

The only place I've seen a more complete table was in an older JD manual from back when they used Kohler engines.

 

[Bill Kapaun]

"I've seen lots of references on the web to noisy lifters in the Kohler Commands when using heavier oils but a lot more references from people who are using 5W-40's and 15W-40's with no problems. So who knows if the lifter problems are real or web myth."

I think the problem stems from using a straight weight oil. Cold start up and the lifters don't get "fed" adequately.

 

[jsharp]

You could be right Bill. A straight 30 weight isn't too different than the 15W-40's at the startup temps when most power equipment is used but straight 40 or 50 weights are certainly thicker.

I did have a person in support at Kohler tell me that "he thought" a 5W-40 was good choice for their current OHV V-twins. He didn't exactly sound like an oil "expurt" though either.

Not to say I am, but his confidence level seemed pretty low when the question was posed to him.

 

[Titan]

I use Rotella 10-30 in my Kohler. A no-brainer to me.

 

[bob_ninja]

Quote:

---

Bob, what piece of equipment is ths engine mounted on. I ask, because most of them just use the default Kohler recommendations table and oils heavier than 10W-30 are never mentioned.

The only place I've seen a more complete table was in an older JD manual from back when they used Kohler engines.

---

Scotts 1642 (from Home Depot, Canada)

Engine man. Kohler
11.9 kW (16 HP)
426cc
1.8L/1.9L oil capacity

Tha chart has:

SAE 5W30 -30C/-22F to 30C/86F
(so I use it in fall/autumn that ranges 10C to 20C)
SAE 10W30 -20C/-4F to 40C/104F
SAE 10W40 -20C/-4F to 50C/122F
SAE 15W40 -15C/0F to 50C/122F

It even has SAE30 0C/32F to 40C/104F

So with 15W40 rated to +50C I should be safe for the summer months. In spring/autumn I do shorter runs with less load, so I go down to 5W30 which is rated to +30C, again plenty safe.

(I have a PDF for the manual, should be on the web)

 

[jsharp]

Good info. Nice to see a more complete table that deals with higher ambients.

The Scotts is a different color JD isn't it?

 

[Bill Kapaun]

What year is that manual?
10W-40 seems to be passe in recent years.

 

[bob_ninja]

Found it:

http://www.deere.com/en_US/scotts/pdfs/lawn_tractors.pdf

I bought my machine around 2002 I think.
Why is 10W40 passe for air cooled engines? Really?

 

[bob_ninja]

It is an orange colored John Deere.
Yep, seems like a perfectly common sense table to me. Not sure why people get stuck on any particular viscosity so much.
I have a Esso XD3 0W30 which is closer to 40 weigth, and Castrol GTX 5W20 that is closer to 30 weight, etc.

I took a repair course where we dismantled bunch of small engines and they are not some delicate mechanisms that require a precise viscosity. They are fairly simple and probably can handle most viscosity so long as oil can handle the heat.

 

[jsharp]

I think the 10W-40's got a bad rap through the 70's and 80's when they were loaded with viscosity index improvers to make the 30 point spread. It seemed to be a recipe for oil shearing, poor lubrication, and sludge.

 

[bob_ninja]

Be that as it may, it is still mandatory for high reving motorcycles and similarly good for air cooled engines, agan due to heat. In both cases they have a shorter OCI than cars. Bike is about 3,000 km and lawn mower is, oh I don't know say 30 hours.

 

[doitmyself]

Bill and others who participated in the previous small engine viscosity debate......please LOOK at the John Deere PDF above! Stirring the pot here.....

I own many John Deere tractors and implements and JD is notorious for having obsolete and/or manual mistakes (not that I am implying this one is).

JD often has recommendations different than the engine manufacturer (good/bad, I'm not judging).

That oil chart in your JD mower manual looks similar to the one in my Diesel tractor. Except, mine does NOT show the use of 15w40 all the way down to 0 degrees F - that's crazy. Please notice they say use of multi-viscosity oil WILL increase oil consumption. They also say use SG or SF oil with NO note of "or higher". The inconsistencies makes one wonder how much effort went into these reccomendations.

Here is the "stock" oil chart from a Kohler engine : oops, couldn't cut and paste the chart, but here is the text from Kohler's web site - check it and their manual out for yourself:


"10W-30 (Command Oil) is recommended for Command, Courage, Command PRO, Command PRO CS, Triad OHC, and Aegis engines for temperatures above freezing (32°F, 0°C). K-Series and Magnum engines should use SAE 30 (Magnum Oil) above freezing. 5W-20 or 5W-30 can be used in all engines when temperatures are below freezing."

I don't want to get into the viscosity debate again. I'M JUST POINTING OUT THE STRIKING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JD'S RECCOMMENDATION VS. THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER.

Kohler is pretty firm in their recommendation of 10W30 for their hydraulic valve engines. Kawasaki recommends straight 30, and B&G recommends synthetic 5w30 in the factory manuals.

Please use what you think is best.

 

[jsharp]

The 10W-40 synthetic M/C oils look like a decent choice to me for these air cooled V-Twin Kohlers. If I didn't have so much other oil stashed I'd probably use Mobil MX4T or one of the Amsoil M/C oils in mine. I may still at the next service interval. I have 65+ hours now, and I get quite a few of my hours in hot weather.

 

[bob_ninja]

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productdetail.jsp?engnID=3760

Let's see. Only 10W30 from 0F up and synthetic 5W20, 5W30 below freezing. Note the specific reference to Kohler Command oil in the chart. Not exactly objective recommendation. I would agree that charts vary based on effort put into it. In this instance they are pushing their own product and didn't want to bother with other viscosities. For some reason more effort was put into Scotts manual.

I would agree that in Scotts version lower end ranges of below freezing for 15W40, 10W40 and even 5W30 are bit too much. It mentions "Arcitic Oil" whatever that means (like 0WX).

Clearly these manuals are not very precise. As I said they don't need to be as these engines can tolerate all sort of viscosities so long as oil doens't shear down too much. Therefore, some common sense should always be used when reading these charts.

Say if Kohler only states 10W30 from freezing up then I will assume that 10W40 or 15W40 will work say from 50F and up for better heat protection.

In any case I think it is safe to extrapolate from simple charts such as the Kohler one.

 

[Volvohead]

While Kohler's 30 weight recommendation is unusually strong, I'm using GC in our Command this season with NO problems. I'm probably right at the limits for viscosity, as the reports of lifter noise with the Command series seem to start with heavier 40s.