80K miles on Motorcraft 5w20 blend

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First ... not to kick a man so to speak, but as BillU already stated, I personally was very tired of the Tim/Amsoil slant with every post he made ... just my two cents.

The pic is very hard to deal with ... I've tried, it is not a good pic.
I see varnish ... I see what appears to be a car that has a motor that was negelected.
My sister had on 04 ... not a 97 ... that she handed over to me ... she had probably changed the oil less than 5 times TOTAL. The dipstick on that 04 had varnish to the very top. When I pulled the valve cover, it looked as bad as the pic .... so again, to me, who knows what went on in that first 32k????

I believe plenty could have happened in that first 32k ... plenty, including changing the oil ...once, twice, three times only maybe?
 
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Welcome back! I was wondering where you went.




Thanks bro. I love the recent discussions that have flared up about MC and PP, both oils that I have recently used, in fact my last two oil in that order! Too bad I wasn't BITOG'in when I had my 1996 Integra SE sedan. To compare me now to then, I had a leak in my Integra's radiator and used stop leak to clog it, used to change oil based on an approximation of mileage or time and never even changed the ATF for the lifetime I had the car (!about 130,000 miles) nor did I plan on one. Now, this is what goes on in the mind of a BITOGer.
 
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I am not saying that is after the heads swapped, that is one of the pics I was sent while my friends was doing the work for me(hard to turn wrenches from Iraq) Where I home I could provide oil change history but I am not, if you think it is not my car I will look over more of the during pictures to see what I have that has the running pony or something for you. The heads and intake that went on are new and when I have some miles on them I will pull the valve covers to look.

The only issues the car has had is a coil pack that wanted to cut out around 4200rpm, the alternator went out and the negative battery terminal cracked.

August-November of 2003 and May-June of 2004 the car saw 6-8 1/8 mile passes at the local track. The rev limiter is set at 6k and at the track it is shifted at 5500. Daily driving it rarely sees over 5k and I am not the guy that shoot away from every stoplight like it is the drag strip.

before_3.jpg


before_2.jpg


after heads went on
Heads_installed_1.jpg


and for anyone interested
Fin_1.jpg
 
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I agree with this post. This doesn't bode well at all for those of you, including me, who who thought MC was this great oil that is *beyond reproach*. I used it for one OCI tho and it performed well but it looks like that may have been a misnomer and there may be a hidden price for atleast the application above if not across the board. Now, am I going to regret using it for one OCI? no, not at all. It's when you use it over and over for 5-7.5k OCIs, and apparently 3k and 3-5k(
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) is when this will happen!






First off......oh brother. You're back. Yea.
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Did you NOT read the original thread????? We do NOT know the history of this engine for the first 32k miles! You CANNOT slam MC because of this unknown history! The F-150? A separate instance. You cannot make a broad statement that MC will do this in 3k miles!

Mods: Why would you let this B.S. return? It's starting all over again.




So you feel that if you disagree with a post it should be eliminated?? I simply gave the results of MC being run exclusively in a truck that it was designed to be in. I know it had not been run hard as many say the Mustang was and I know the service records were impeccable. Nowhere did I say I had proof that MC was an inferior oil but the results (varnish deposits) says volumes about the oil's ability to keep an engine clean especially at such conservative intervals. Based on what I have seen in that one truck's engine I don't think MC is anything more than a lowest-bidder oil. Does anyone here even know conclusively that it's always been made by one supplier?
I also know that by simply changing to another brand of oil the truck's long-time lifter noise stopped in less than 50 miles. Yeah, I know, the different oil didn't have anything to do with that
smirk.gif
.
We don't know what happened the first 32K of the Mustang's life but I do know what has taken place in the life of the F-150 and the results look the same. Is there a problem with 4.6L engines varnishing up? Does anyone have a TSB to that effect? If so I guess we can say definitely the oil was not at fault. There is however the very real possibility that not all oils are created equal and some are less efficient at keeping an engine clean. This could be an example.
All I did was to relate what I had seen first-hand and share the results of switching to another oil. If that is treason make the most of it.
whistle.gif
 
Just to add my 2 cents to this thread: I'm thinking the pour Mustang had the factory fill in until 32K, or changed out no more than 3 times. It's good to see the pictures of the fresh heads and clean camshafts.

06VtechV6, it's good to see you back man; I was afraid you were gone forever. If anything, you certainly do know how to liven up a thread.
smile.gif
 
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I agree with this post. This doesn't bode well at all for those of you, including me, who who thought MC was this great oil that is *beyond reproach*. I used it for one OCI tho and it performed well but it looks like that may have been a misnomer and there may be a hidden price for atleast the application above if not across the board. Now, am I going to regret using it for one OCI? no, not at all. It's when you use it over and over for 5-7.5k OCIs, and apparently 3k and 3-5k(
shocked.gif
) is when this will happen!






First off......oh brother. You're back. Yea.
smirk.gif


Did you NOT read the original thread????? We do NOT know the history of this engine for the first 32k miles! You CANNOT slam MC because of this unknown history! The F-150? A separate instance. You cannot make a broad statement that MC will do this in 3k miles!

Mods: Why would you let this B.S. return? It's starting all over again.




So you feel that if you disagree with a post it should be eliminated?? I simply gave the results of MC being run exclusively in a truck that it was designed to be in. I know it had not been run hard as many say the Mustang was and I know the service records were impeccable. Nowhere did I say I had proof that MC was an inferior oil but the results (varnish deposits) says volumes about the oil's ability to keep an engine clean especially at such conservative intervals. Based on what I have seen in that one truck's engine I don't think MC is anything more than a lowest-bidder oil. Does anyone here even know conclusively that it's always been made by one supplier?
I also know that by simply changing to another brand of oil the truck's long-time lifter noise stopped in less than 50 miles. Yeah, I know, the different oil didn't have anything to do with that
smirk.gif
.
We don't know what happened the first 32K of the Mustang's life but I do know what has taken place in the life of the F-150 and the results look the same. Is there a problem with 4.6L engines varnishing up? Does anyone have a TSB to that effect? If so I guess we can say definitely the oil was not at fault. There is however the very real possibility that not all oils are created equal and some are less efficient at keeping an engine clean. This could be an example.
All I did was to relate what I had seen first-hand and share the results of switching to another oil. If that is treason make the most of it.
whistle.gif





You do realize the post he quoted isn't yours, right?
smirk.gif
 
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First ... not to kick a man so to speak, but as BillU already stated, I personally was very tired of the Tim/Amsoil slant with every post he made ... just my two cents.






Does this mean "All my Amsoil's" has been cancelled..
shocked.gif
banana.gif
 
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It's when you use it over and over for 5-7.5k OCIs, and apparently 3k and 3-5k(
shocked.gif
) is when this will happen!






THIS is what I have a problem with, 06Vtec. You cannot make a broad generalized statement like this without (once again) any hardcore proof from a series of vehicles that MC "apparently" causes varnish, etc. with 3k-5k changes.
 
One last note... he bought the car in 2002 .... with 32k miles ... 1997 to 2002 .. five years, 32k miles supposedly on the OD.

(Zac I do not doubt your story whatsoever ... I am in doubt as to what the P. O. did with your car)

I do not understand how anyone could bash any oil based on the one picture posted given the 5 years of mystery about the motor.
 
MolaKule
Group IV Member


Reged: 06/06/02
Posts: 8687
Loc: Midwest Re: Additives - Detergent - Dispersants
#525636 - 12/20/04 02:55 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



All sludge is an aggregation of various hydrocarbons.

The dispersant and detergent have a useful life.

It is not so much they become geriatric as the fact they are used up surrounding and conglomerating sludge particles. I.E., they can only hold so much sludge in suspension.

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This is commonly known, but to back up the fact that over- extended oci would have caused the junk occurance in this engine. The miles YOU put on this engine may have had routine oil changes, but before this happened there were 5 years of abuse that no oil could cover.
 
Sure, this engine isn't squeaky clean... but this is nothing out of the ordinary. We're talking about a 10 year old vehicle with an unknown history... in the sort of car that's commonly rode hard and put up wet. 8000 miles per year isn't that much, either- this car has likely done a fair amount of sitting and/or short trips. IMO, this post tells us nothing whatsoever about Motorcraft oil (which I've never used).

If this was my engine, I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. I'd probably switch to either a good synthetic, or (cheap ba$tard that I am) an HDEO like Rotella (my personal preference, anyways). HDEO's have to be chock full of dispersants to meet the new CI-4 spec (lotsa soot in diesels), and most also meet the SM spec.
 
Zacharyx, best of luck and success in Iraq! Your GT will spring back to life despite the varnish when you return and take her for a spin. I have a '96 GT with three times the mileage of your car, and it runs like a champ.

The previous owners of my car used a 10W-30 conventional (Chevron) that gave considerably less varnish than you are realizing. I think the difference is that you must do more short trips on cold oil. Thus the fuel in the oil is significant and causes the bad varnishing.

All the fleet success stories with the MC oil seem to be for engines that see few cold starts. You should probably be using an oil with a potent detergency additive pack and more indestructible basestock to combat the fuel dilution. I have been using the Syntec 5W-20 at an OCI of 5000miles and the varnishing has been disappearing from the higher splash areas on the topside of the heads. One or more lifter remains sticky and noisy, so varnishing is a thing to be avoided in these engines.

Go with a highest quality synthetic 20 weight oil from here on out at 5K OCI (or longer as determined by UOA). The engine should last a long time before the next teardown.
 
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So, how much of an improvment did the heads and bullit intake make?




Its actually the intake the bullit was based off of that was made for the NPI heads. But the heads, intake and the 99+ cams added 67rwhp and 37rwtq. I haven't been able to drive it yet as I am still in Iraq but I get a two week break shortly. The guy who tuned it said it pull strong all the way to 6K and where with the old H/C/I it fell off at around 4800. The first time I will get to drive it will be on the way to Mustang Week
 
These 4.6L NPI engines definitely need some port work to raise and broaden the powerband. I hope you like your mods; I will be doing the same in the near term.
 
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These 4.6L NPI engines definitely need some port work to raise and broaden the powerband. I hope you like your mods; I will be doing the same in the near term.




Depending on your goals, I would suggest just doing the PI intake and cams. If you want more power than that will give you find a cheap set of NPI heads and have Jason Steen work them since you are already in VA, and go with a better cam, I am sure you can cross 300rwhp with worked NPI heads, PI intake and a good set of cams. And you will still be at a blower friendly compression ratio
 
Late to the party, but I'm right with Honda Man on this. I think it would be jumping the gun to dismiss lots of good to great UOAs (lots seemed to be posted last winter) of MC 5W-20 with one picture of an engine that has an unknown history for several years and 32K miles.

Remember the guy with the Crown Vic who posted erlier this year that he'd just turned 200K on his (cop?) car using MC 5W-20? I would put more stock in that than this picture of this car since the whole history of the CV was known.

Zach - stay safe over there. And thank you.
 
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