Extreme Engine Failure: Phosphorus

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I hate not having all information and trying to communicate, but here it goes:

I work at a dealership that had a truck come in on the hook about 2 weeks ago. The engine was totally fried.

When we looked at the oil, it was extremely thick. Syrup thick. The oil filter was completely plugged, which cooked the bearings and the rest of the engine.

It is difficult to describe the condition. It was literally as if someone had added a thickening agent to the oil that turned it to a consistency close to grease.

My second hand information:
It was fresh oil and filter. Less then 200 miles.

What I saw:
The oil was dark for "new." It was extremely thick. It felt as though something had been added.


The shop came to me since I have some faint knowledge of oil traits. I wanted to send it out to the same lab I use for my oil analysis, but they sent it somewhere else.

When the report came back, the only thing unusual about the oil according to this lab was: Excessive Phosphorus.

I asked how many PPM, and no one had an answer.

Any ideas what could cause this? Just theorizing at this point. According to the lab, this was the only thing noted wrong with the oil. No sugar, no foreign items, just excessive phosphorus.

I said I would look into it, but I just don't have any ideas as of right now. I wanted to initially point to coolant, but it didn't seem as though the oil had coolant in it.

The vehicle is a 2004 Ford F-150 with a 5.4. It should have g05 coolant. I seem to remember something about phosphorus in g05, but it has been too darn long.

Any and all ideas/input greatly appreciated!
 
The oil was new? Unlikely.

Could have been coke or some other soft drink with phosphoric acid. But water would have shown up as well as solids from the sugar.

You are asked to help - but no one will show you the analysis in writing?? Makes no sense.
 
Thats exactly my problem.. Plus, then went with a place over in Oregon that I had never heard of. As soon as I can get the numbers, I will post them up.

Thinking out loud. We live in a high agriculture area. What about some form of liquid fertilizer with a high amount of phosphorus? Still seems like more would show up though..
 
Seems like the viscosity should be way off given what you describe. Consistency close to grease would have been out of spec viscosity-wise. Sounds like they put the wrong kind of oil in.
 
Something is fishy here.

Almost sounds (by trying to read between the lines) as if the "high P" is some lameass "expert opinion", to blame the oil. As if he has done some kind of figuring based on something he read.....and the engine failed by his reckoning because it contained old SJ oil. Just a guess.
 
I hope that you dont get the pleasure of replacing an engine. Those body styles are a huge pain!!! On another note maybe the place that did his oil change pulled a fast one on him and put in used oil, it wouldnt be the first time ive seen it done.
 
If this was a wounded engine and someone was pouring oil in it to keep up with really bad consumption you would find phosphorus building up in the sump oil. It will stay around while other components burn off. It is a really good anti-wear additive. If the engine was rally sludged up, new oil would look bad very quickly. So very high phosphorus could indicate such a situation but there is a lot more info needed to try to figure out what happened.
 
I don't get how the filter got 'clogged' and did not go into bypass, especially if it only had 200 miles on it.
 
The engine had about 24,000 miles on it.

I don't have any idea of the condition or the regularity of oil changes. I don't think the oil itself is to blame. I do beleive something has been added.

Yes, if they can show that it wasn't his fault the engine failed, the insurance company is going to replace the engine. It is pretty cool to see, they pull the entire body clean off the frame.

I finally saw what they faxed over. I'm not going to mention the company, but what a ____ report. They checked for fuel, water, and sugar. No PPM readings on ANYTHING. Just a note of "High phosphorus" The insurance company took a sample of oil to test themselves.. Now, I may never know what the condition was.
frown.gif
 
High Potassium or sodium would indicate coolant leak. My guess is this is probably the problem. Maybe they have phosphorus and potassium confused? Lots of coolant would really thicken up the oil to look like gunk/grease.
crushedcar.gif
 
It is pretty cool to see, they pull the entire body clean off the frame.
The engineers ,Designers who do that kind of work are idiots and should have the pistons shoved into their cylinders without lube.A disgrace I would be ashamed to put out that kind of work.
 
Quote:


Did the engine overheat? That would cook the oil and thicken it up.


I don't think overheating will effect the oil in that way .Long before the oil can get hot enough to change into crud there will be some kind of failure like the valve seats falling out heads warping etc ..For the oil to thicken and turn to crud ,it would take high oil temps for a real long time .
 
Well does the owner have any reason to suspect foul play? If someone dumped phospheric acid like what is used at body shops it would when combined with the heat and blow by produce a nasty thick fluid. It would not plug the filter directly but could cause the filter media to breakdown or chemicaly melt preventing flow. I just do not know how long in terms of miles or hours though this would take. As far fertilizers go Anhydrous Amonia is liguid and very concentrated and it is clear in color. You could nevermistake it for oil so someone would have to do it with malice. I have no idea what Anhydrous Amonia would do in combination with the oil when heated and exposed to blow by gases. A complete UOA with TBN and TAN would really be helpful!

P.S. A compound made from cashew ground up cashew and clay was used dureing WWII by the OSS and SAS to disable German vechiles. It took a few hundred miles to tear up the bearings so the damge was delayed. This meant that the sabtour was no where near the device when it failed. THe material completely dissolved intot he oil leaveing little if anything for a Technician to find. It was about the size of an average candy bar and would be cramed into the oil fill tube or valve cover. It had the consistency of modeling clay.
 
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