SM vs SJ , Outdoor Power Equip,, Shell's Opinion

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doitmyself

doitmyself

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Thought I would start a new thread just for SM vs. SJ debate.

Hate to keep beating the dead horse. Like all "quests for the best", it often leads to "most oils will work well, regular maintenance is the key".

My question to Shell's question center/site:

My owners manual for my 2007 23hp Kawasaki air cooled commercial ZTR mower engine recommends and prefers 30wt. SG,SH,or SJ oil. Your site says that SL or SM are "better". Would one of these in a standard auto 30wt. oil be better than SJ Rotella?

Does SM still protect a hot running air cool engine as well as SJ?

"API SM and SL oils are "better" for those applications in which they are required, such as later model cars designed specifically for their use. They are also "better" than older SG, SH and SJ oils produced when those specifications were current, because the base stocks and additives are better. They are also "better" in that they may be used for the older specifications.

There would certainly be nothing wrong with using API SM or SL oil in SAE 30 for your equipment. However, Shell Rotella T Oil SAE 30, which also fully meets your equipment requirements (although only rated to SJ and earlier), would be an excellent choice. Because the product is also rated for diesel engines, it contains high levels of zinc-based anti-wear additives, as well as higher levels of detergents and over-based (TBN) additives, compared to gasoline-only SM and SL oils. Frankly, for your application, when the product is available, I'd choose Shell Rotella T Oil SAE 30".

XXXXX XXXXXXX, Staff Chemist, Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center
 
I agree Johnny. It's certainly a "feel good" answer for those walking the fence on this issue - the "Bi-API curious" crowd.

During the SL era, I thought it was stupid to buy overpriced SJ small engine specific oil (B&S, for example). Many are wondering if the cat related SM label really meets the small engine requirements. As I posted earlier, the motorcyclists avoid auto-type oils. Interesting, to me, at least.

My mind is settled for now - bought some rotella T today. Might try Amsoil ACD next.
 
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So if I read this right Shell says: It's ok if you used today's engineered oil, but if you want to be more granularly applicable, use the small engine oil.

Isn't this what most ppl have been saying here?

I think the confusion was how some were ascerting that a 5w-30 or 10w-30 dino oil wouldn't provide enough protection or isn't applicable at all.

I think your answer from Shell just reaffirms what seems logical: that today's dino can do a every bit a good job of protecting as a small engine oil. Thanks.
 
Actually, the chemist at Shell is saying that the SAE 30 Rotella T, a HDEO (designed to be used in older diesel engines, but very capable if not ideal in many gas engines such as mowers) would be his first recommendation. Other good offerings from Shell would be Rotella 15W-40 and 5W-40 synthetic, especially for heavy use in hot weather. The 5W-40 could be used even in cold weather, making it an ideal year round engine oil for outdoor power equipment engines.
 
I am using Esso XD-3 PAO synthetic HDEO 0w-30 (a very heavy and shear resistant 30wt) in my gas equipment that asks for 10w-30. I think this is a good choice, especially in my Kawasaki powered John Deere JX-75 walk-behind mower, which barely gets warmed up cutting my lawn. This thing holds a full quart of HDEO with the automotive style spin-on oil filter kit installed.

Same thing in my Yamaha generator that gets used on camping trips for around an hour or two at most at a time in the Canadian rockies. It's often around 50F when this generator is fired up.

Same also in my Honda OHV clone pressure washer, that sees light duty once in a while spraying off the cars.

Around here it can get hot, but often it's not too hot. Average summer day is around 70-75F, and 90's for around a month and a half. In any case, got a little off topic, but count me in with the HDEO crowd for lawn equipment.

The higher levels of AW additives and detergents, as well as the shear resistance of HDEO's seem well suited to this type of service.
 
I like their response.

I have fresh gallon of Rotella T SAE 30 SJ for all my mowing needs. I also like Delo SAE 30, but cannot find it hardly ever these days.

I have never liked running a multi-weight in my mower.

doitmyself,

Here is a question for you ... what if your equipment called for SAE 30 SF/SG/SH?
I have a brand new 4-cycle trimmer ... it comes with a nice little bottle of oil. Manual clearly states (more than once) SAE 30 SF/SG/SH.

I am going to dump what is in the bottle and pour in Rotella.
Its almost funny to know that people out there, who like myself, wonder/worry about such topics.

smile.gif
 
Quote:

Where do you find Rotella T oil ? And what does GC stand for.

Click to expand...


GC stands for German Castrol which is BITOG slang for Castrol 0W-30.

Rotella T should be available at just about any decent auto parts store as well as Wal*Mart. If you still turn up nothing, visit a truck stop.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Where do you find Rotella T oil ? And what does GC stand for.

Click to expand...


GC stands for German Castrol which is BITOG slang for Castrol 0W-30.

Rotella T should be available at just about any decent auto parts store as well as Wal*Mart. If you still turn up nothing, visit a truck stop.

Click to expand...


Farm stores are another source for Rotella. It seems like it's turned up in all of our local ones in the last year or so...
 
Quote:

doitmyself,

Here is a question for you ... what if your equipment called for SAE 30 SF/SG/SH? I have a brand new 4-cycle trimmer ... it comes with a nice little bottle of oil. Manual clearly states (more than once) SAE 30 SF/SG/SH.

Click to expand...


Well, there are a number of factors here. I am still not convinced whether or not SM oils are excellent for small engines vs. SJ being better. Your trimmer won't blow up using SM. For now, I choose to use a rating less than SM.

Is that oil for use in the gasoline or crankcase? I'm not sure where the API ratings (if any) are for gas/oil mix.

I know SJ is still a viable API rating. SH, not sure. Anything less is obsolete and not available for the most part. I have heard stories of obsolete off brands available at quickie stores.

If there is any concern, it's mostly with the SM and whether it is robust enough for small engines. We really can only speculate until some experts chime in or UOA's are done.

I'm working on some other ideas. I contacted Briggs to see if they have oil temp data for air cooled engines. One site (one person) said air cool engine oil temps can top 250 F intermittently -just an opinion.

Some speculate that synthetics LOWER air cool engine temps. - I question that.

And, does going too thick (15w40)increase friction and heat, and reduce fuel efficiency?
 
Quote:

but count me in with the HDEO crowd for lawn equipment. The higher levels of AW additives and detergents, as well as the shear resistance of HDEO's seem well suited to this type of service.


Click to expand...


Kohler agrees with you. The two oils they market under their name are diesel (C) rated additive packages.
 
doitmyself,

Yes the oil is for the crankcase, being a 4 cycle trimmer, it just using straight gas and a whooping 4.0 oz of oil.

As I mentioned I am not even gonna use the oil in the little bottle they gave me and I am going to pour in my Rotella T SAE 30 SJ.

I agree with you completely in regards to an SM oil in these engines. Funny the only oil I see that is mono grade and SM is Halvoline SAE 30 .... the auto 30 grades seem to be all SL at least .... the HDEO are SJ.

B&S oil at the store ... SJ.

I am running Rotella SAE 30 SJ in all lawn equipment and the new Rotella CJ4/SM 15w-40 in my BMW 318i and PP 5w-20 in the Honda Odyssey.
Johnny!!! Can I get a sticker or a cap?
smile.gif
 
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